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Apr 16, 2026 · 51m · how-i-built-this

Advice Line with Chieh Huang of Boxed

Guy Raz · 18m spoken Chieh Huang · 15m spoken Eli Mash · 3m spoken Jessica Dubin · 3m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab, host Guy Raz and guest co-host Chieh Huang share practical guidance with three early-stage founders navigating manufacturing bottlenecks, marketplace distribution, and product formulation challenges.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 40.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 0.4 Guy pushing back 1.2
05100:0015:0030:0045:004:35–6:52 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Chieh Huang on Founding Pelgo Guy acts as a curious interviewer asking Chieh about his new venture Pelgo. Chieh educates Guy on the outplacement industry, AI disruption, and Pelgo's mission to democratize job transition services.6:53–23:06 · Guy as informed peer 7/10 Advice for Surfing Cow: Scaling a Beef Tallow Skincare Brand Guy demonstrates strong CPG expertise, advising on formulation lock-in, contract manufacturing, shelf-life testing, and regional brand partnerships. Guy also offers a gentle pushback against Chieh's aggressive venture fundraising philosophy by advocating for conservative friends-and-family capital.23:26–34:23 · Guy as informed peer 6/10 Advice for Tail Cinch: Expanding an Equine Care Business Jessica Dubin details her horse tail tie business and distribution questions. Guy leverages market research data on equine TAM and highlights behavioral parallels between horse owners and dog owners to help frame her expansion.34:30–47:37 · Guy as informed peer 8/10 Advice for Makor Coffee: Solving Functional Brewing Challenges Guy showcases detailed food science and business knowledge, distinguishing Ceylon from Saigon cinnamon, discussing particle grind extraction, and drawing on the Justin's Nut Butter pouch case study to solve single-serve trial friction.47:38–50:52 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Chieh Huang's Entrepreneurial Reflections and Show Conclusion A collaborative wrap-up segment where Guy prompts Chieh for retrospective entrepreneurial wisdom, followed by an archival audio clip from Chieh's earlier appearance.4:35–6:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 Chieh Huang on Founding Pelgo Guy acts as a curious interviewer asking Chieh about his new venture Pelgo. Chieh educates Guy on the outplacement industry, AI disruption, and Pelgo's mission to democratize job transition services.6:53–23:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Advice for Surfing Cow: Scaling a Beef Tallow Skincare Brand Guy demonstrates strong CPG expertise, advising on formulation lock-in, contract manufacturing, shelf-life testing, and regional brand partnerships. Guy also offers a gentle pushback against Chieh's aggressive venture fundraising philosophy by advocating for conservative friends-and-family capital.23:26–34:23 · Guest teaching 2/10 Advice for Tail Cinch: Expanding an Equine Care Business Jessica Dubin details her horse tail tie business and distribution questions. Guy leverages market research data on equine TAM and highlights behavioral parallels between horse owners and dog owners to help frame her expansion.34:30–47:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Advice for Makor Coffee: Solving Functional Brewing Challenges Guy showcases detailed food science and business knowledge, distinguishing Ceylon from Saigon cinnamon, discussing particle grind extraction, and drawing on the Justin's Nut Butter pouch case study to solve single-serve trial friction.47:38–50:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Chieh Huang's Entrepreneurial Reflections and Show Conclusion A collaborative wrap-up segment where Guy prompts Chieh for retrospective entrepreneurial wisdom, followed by an archival audio clip from Chieh's earlier appearance.4:35–6:52 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Chieh Huang on Founding Pelgo Guy acts as a curious interviewer asking Chieh about his new venture Pelgo. Chieh educates Guy on the outplacement industry, AI disruption, and Pelgo's mission to democratize job transition services.6:53–23:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advice for Surfing Cow: Scaling a Beef Tallow Skincare Brand Guy demonstrates strong CPG expertise, advising on formulation lock-in, contract manufacturing, shelf-life testing, and regional brand partnerships. Guy also offers a gentle pushback against Chieh's aggressive venture fundraising philosophy by advocating for conservative friends-and-family capital.23:26–34:23 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Advice for Tail Cinch: Expanding an Equine Care Business Jessica Dubin details her horse tail tie business and distribution questions. Guy leverages market research data on equine TAM and highlights behavioral parallels between horse owners and dog owners to help frame her expansion.34:30–47:37 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advice for Makor Coffee: Solving Functional Brewing Challenges Guy showcases detailed food science and business knowledge, distinguishing Ceylon from Saigon cinnamon, discussing particle grind extraction, and drawing on the Justin's Nut Butter pouch case study to solve single-serve trial friction.47:38–50:52 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Chieh Huang's Entrepreneurial Reflections and Show Conclusion A collaborative wrap-up segment where Guy prompts Chieh for retrospective entrepreneurial wisdom, followed by an archival audio clip from Chieh's earlier appearance.4:35–6:52 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Chieh Huang on Founding Pelgo Guy acts as a curious interviewer asking Chieh about his new venture Pelgo. Chieh educates Guy on the outplacement industry, AI disruption, and Pelgo's mission to democratize job transition services.6:53–23:06 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Advice for Surfing Cow: Scaling a Beef Tallow Skincare Brand Guy demonstrates strong CPG expertise, advising on formulation lock-in, contract manufacturing, shelf-life testing, and regional brand partnerships. Guy also offers a gentle pushback against Chieh's aggressive venture fundraising philosophy by advocating for conservative friends-and-family capital.23:26–34:23 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Advice for Tail Cinch: Expanding an Equine Care Business Jessica Dubin details her horse tail tie business and distribution questions. Guy leverages market research data on equine TAM and highlights behavioral parallels between horse owners and dog owners to help frame her expansion.34:30–47:37 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Advice for Makor Coffee: Solving Functional Brewing Challenges Guy showcases detailed food science and business knowledge, distinguishing Ceylon from Saigon cinnamon, discussing particle grind extraction, and drawing on the Justin's Nut Butter pouch case study to solve single-serve trial friction.47:38–50:52 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Chieh Huang's Entrepreneurial Reflections and Show Conclusion A collaborative wrap-up segment where Guy prompts Chieh for retrospective entrepreneurial wisdom, followed by an archival audio clip from Chieh's earlier appearance.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 80.9% · guest 19.1%0:00 · Guy 80.9% · guest 19.1%3:00 · Guy 16.9% · guest 83.1%3:00 · Guy 16.9% · guest 83.1%6:00 · Guy 31.1% · guest 68.9%6:00 · Guy 31.1% · guest 68.9%9:00 · Guy 38.2% · guest 61.8%9:00 · Guy 38.2% · guest 61.8%12:00 · Guy 58.1% · guest 41.9%12:00 · Guy 58.1% · guest 41.9%15:00 · Guy 22.5% · guest 77.5%15:00 · Guy 22.5% · guest 77.5%18:00 · Guy 46.7% · guest 53.3%18:00 · Guy 46.7% · guest 53.3%21:00 · Guy 55.9% · guest 44.1%21:00 · Guy 55.9% · guest 44.1%24:00 · Guy 25.6% · guest 74.4%24:00 · Guy 25.6% · guest 74.4%27:00 · Guy 5.2% · guest 94.8%27:00 · Guy 5.2% · guest 94.8%30:00 · Guy 50.5% · guest 49.5%30:00 · Guy 50.5% · guest 49.5%33:00 · Guy 60.8% · guest 39.2%33:00 · Guy 60.8% · guest 39.2%36:00 · Guy 20.4% · guest 79.6%36:00 · Guy 20.4% · guest 79.6%39:00 · Guy 32.8% · guest 67.2%39:00 · Guy 32.8% · guest 67.2%42:00 · Guy 32.8% · guest 67.2%42:00 · Guy 32.8% · guest 67.2%45:00 · Guy 60.8% · guest 39.2%45:00 · Guy 60.8% · guest 39.2%48:00 · Guy 49.3% · guest 50.7%48:00 · Guy 49.3% · guest 50.7%51:00 · Guy 0% · guest 0%51:00 · Guy 0% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 41:46 Eli pushes back on custom grinding feasibility

Eli pushes back on Guy's suggestion about custom freeze-dried grinds by pointing out certified suppliers don't offer that at his scale, making in-house grinding too labor intensive.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 19:33 Guy reframes outside capital advice

Guy steps in to moderate Chieh's pro-dilution fundraising stance, firmly advising the caller to limit fundraising to small checks under $50,000 from personal networks rather than taking substantial institutional dilution.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 17:15 Alec details FDA OTC regulatory hurdles and costs

Alec educates both hosts on the regulatory friction of mineral sunscreens, explaining that proprietary OTC formulas cost $50,000 to $80,000 per SKU and take up to a year for approval.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 45:27 Guy introduces the Justin's Nut Butter pouch strategy

Guy draws upon deep historical podcast insights to propose introducing freeze-dried functional coffee in single-serve pouches, directly analogizing it to how Justin's Nut Butter disrupted retail.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Chieh Huang on Founding Pelgo 1300 Guy acts as a curious interviewer asking Chieh about his new venture Pelgo. Chieh educates Guy on the outplacement industry, AI disruption, and Pelgo's mission to democratize job transition services.
Advice for Surfing Cow: Scaling a Beef Tallow Skincare Brand 7313 Guy demonstrates strong CPG expertise, advising on formulation lock-in, contract manufacturing, shelf-life testing, and regional brand partnerships. Guy also offers a gentle pushback against Chieh's aggressive venture fundraising philosophy by advocating for conservative friends-and-family capital.
Advice for Tail Cinch: Expanding an Equine Care Business 6201 Jessica Dubin details her horse tail tie business and distribution questions. Guy leverages market research data on equine TAM and highlights behavioral parallels between horse owners and dog owners to help frame her expansion.
Advice for Makor Coffee: Solving Functional Brewing Challenges 8212 Guy showcases detailed food science and business knowledge, distinguishing Ceylon from Saigon cinnamon, discussing particle grind extraction, and drawing on the Justin's Nut Butter pouch case study to solve single-serve trial friction.
Chieh Huang's Entrepreneurial Reflections and Show Conclusion 1200 A collaborative wrap-up segment where Guy prompts Chieh for retrospective entrepreneurial wisdom, followed by an archival audio clip from Chieh's earlier appearance.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Partly supported
Huang: Boxed had ~$20M cash left before selling software to BlackRock
“We still had, what, almost twenty million dollars cash left in the bank, but collectively we decided the best kind of path forward was boxed, was to sell our software business. So BlackRock ended up buying that and owning that.”
Chieh Huang Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 3:56
Disclosure
Huang has zero involvement with the resurrected Boxed brand
“I have nothing to do with the box that has been resurrected today.”
Chieh Huang Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 4:13
Assertion Supported
Chieh Huang: Outplacement costs thousands and is mostly limited to executives
“What we found is outplacement is, you know, cost several thousand dollars, and unless you're a certain level of executive, you generally don't get it.”
Chieh Huang Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 6:10
Insight
Huang: Founders Should Take Dilution Because Startup Outcomes Are Binary
“I think it's okay to take outside capital. Because most businesses, the end result and the quote unquote end result for the founder, most businesses are quite binary. Like, meaning that this is going to be really big, like we're going to see Surfing Cow and Se…”
Chieh Huang Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 18:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Huang: Surfing Cow founder made $200,000 in skincare products at home
“You've cooked 200 grand worth of beef tallow sun products in your own kitchen.”
Chieh Huang Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 22:23
Disclosure
Tail Cinch generates $70,000 to $80,000 annually over four years
“I do between 70 to 80,000 a year in revenue, and I've been in business for four years. You know, I pretty much hit that number every year, you know, and, but I'm not really growing from that”
Jessica Dubin Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 26:22
Assertion Partly supported
Guy Raz: TAM for horse gear and apparel is $20 billion
“The, apparently the total addressable market for just horse products, right? Just gear and apparel is twenty billion dollars.”
Guy Raz Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 33:05
Disclosure
Mash: Makor Coffee Is Pacing for $200K-$300K Revenue With 300 Subscribers
“We have about 300 people who subscribe every month. This year we're on track to do between 203 100,000 dollars with 95% of it being online.”
Eli Mash Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 37:49
Insight
Huang: Office Coffee Accounts Act Like Highly Sticky Annuities
“Office coffee is like a knife fight of an industry. Everyone wants to sell coffee to offices, because they become like annuities. Like, you know, once you're in there, everyone's happy. The fastest way for team members to burn down the office is to say we're o…”
Chieh Huang Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 44:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Huang: Early Boxed Recorded Zero Orders for Two Consecutive Days
“One of the folks that quit his six-figure paying job to join the dream and sit in my garage called and said, dude, I refreshed the page over and over. It's not broken. We got zero orders today. This dropped down to zero two days in a row.”
Chieh Huang Apr 16, 2026 ▶ 49:25
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