Jan 19, 2023 · 34m · catalyst
This episode is trash
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of Catalyst, host Shail Khan speaks with Nest co-founder Matt Rogers about his startup Mill, an innovative kitchen hardware and reverse logistics service designed to eliminate residential food waste by turning household scraps into chicken feed.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shayle holds 37.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 4.4 Guest disagreement 0.7 Shayle pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:45 Pushing back on the assumption that composting is ideal for food waste
Rogers counters the widespread assumption that composting is optimal for food scraps, arguing it produces emissions and that food must stay in the food system instead.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 13:24 Challenging whether climate awareness drives consumer behaviorKann questions Rogers' premise about consumer awareness, pressing whether even perfect climate knowledge actually motivates behavior change without pure convenience.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:25 Detailing land-use savings from diverted livestock feedRogers educates Kann on the broader climate equation, highlighting that a third of global arable land feeds livestock and feeding scraps directly to animals displaces crop cultivation.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 15:55 Synthesizing upstream preservation innovations before kitchen disposalKann demonstrates broad sector expertise by mapping out shelf-life extension, supply chain forecasting, and food coating solutions before evaluating downstream hardware.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| The Massive Scale and Climate Impact of Food Waste | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Kann asks fundamental questions about why food waste is an emissions issue rather than just a moral or operational one. Rogers explains the global scale of food emissions and details anaerobic digestion creating potent methane in landfills. The tone is informative and collaborative. | |
| The Costs and Constraints of Modern Landfill Systems | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Kann explores the logistical path of end-of-use food and prompts on landfill real estate constraints. Rogers details the high municipal costs of diesel hauling and the permitting bottlenecks that force cities like New York and Seattle to ship waste hundreds of miles away. | |
| Rethinking Food Disposal: Composting vs. Animal Feed | 5 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Kann brings in his personal experience with Berkeley's municipal green bin program to compare composting with landfilling. Rogers clarifies that composting is suboptimal for food waste compared to keeping food in the animal feed system, avoiding substantial agricultural land use. | |
| Consumer Psychology and Frictionless Habit Building | 4 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Kann pushes on whether climate concern is genuinely enough of a motivator for mainstream consumer behavior change. Rogers agrees that convenience and frictionlessness matter far more than climate awareness, drawing lessons from building the Nest thermostat and iPhone. | |
| Preventing Food Waste vs. Managing Unavoidable Kitchen Scraps | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Kann raises upstream interventions like produce coatings and supply chain forecasting, while humorously pointing out household realities like pets cleaning up toddler mess. Rogers acknowledges upstream solutions but emphasizes that household scrap generation remains unavoidable. | |
| The Origin and Multidisciplinary Team Behind Mill | 4 | 5 | 0 | 1 | Kann asks for a step-by-step walkthrough of the hardware, processing mechanics, and feed upcycling. Rogers explains the distributed kitchen dehydration and pasteurization process, clarifying how varied diets are blended into standardized chicken feed. | |
| Go-to-Market Strategy and Partnering with Municipalities | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Kann explores how Mill interacts with municipal waste monopolies and city-level refuse collection. Rogers explains the hybrid private-public models and how cities use pilots with Mill to meet zero-waste diversion mandates. | |
| Economic Viability and the Dollar-a-Day Membership Model | 4 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Kann queries the pricing model and consumer willingness to pay for a subscription garbage appliance. Rogers breaks down the dollar-a-day pricing and demonstrates how pay-as-you-throw municipal cart downsizing can offset the subscription cost. | |
| Utilizing the Existing Postal Service for Reverse Logistics | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Kann asks about the logistics rationale for using the United States Postal Service over dedicated reverse logistics fleets. Rogers outlines how shelf-stable grounds allow non-urgent utilization of empty returning postal delivery vehicles. |
Statements from this episode (18)
Tesla Model 3 and Nest thermostat tie as top consumer climate products
“I would say it's roughly a tie at the moment between the Tesla Model Three and the Nest thermostat, probably with the edge to the Nest thermostat, but both have objectively been big successes from a consumer adoption standpoint.”
Rogers: Roughly one-third of all food grown globally is thrown out
“Well, at a top level, we throw out about a third of the food we grow.”
Food waste causes 10% of global emissions, ranking just behind the US
“It's one of the biggest climate problems in that food waste is like 10% of emissions. So like, if you ranked it by country, it'd be like China, United States, food waste, India.”
Rogers: About half of all food waste originates in residential kitchens
“But actually, but if you look at kind of where the food we throw out comes from, about half of that comes from our houses, from our kitchen tables.”
New York City trucks garbage 100 miles following Staten Island landfill closure
“When the Staten Island landfill got filled and closed and turned into a park, actually, which is pretty cool, they're now trucking waste like a hundred miles away.”
Rogers: Seattle transports its municipal trash by train to Oregon
“I think Seattle is putting their trash on trains all the way down to Oregon, which is just crazy.”
Composting is poorly suited for food waste due to its gloopy texture
“Composting is really good for, like, things like yard waste or agricultural waste, things that are really bulky. Composting is really not great for food waste. Food waste is kind of gloopy. You know, that's a technical term. And large-scale composters actually…”
Rogers: Only about 5% of households have green bin access
“I think only about five percent of households have access to a green bin program, so they're actually pretty rare.”
Feeding livestock is the second-best environmental use for food waste
“The best thing to do with food waste is actually to feed it to someone. And we can't always feed it to a person, but the next best thing would be to feed it to an animal. So you could avoid all of the emissions of having to grow more crops to feed those animal…”
Rogers: One-third of Earth's arable land feeds livestock
“Something like one-third of the arable land on Earth is just to create food for livestock.”
Mill kitchen bin grinds and dries bones, dairy, and avocado pits
“So you could put all food in the bin, everything, including meat and dairy, chicken bones and fish bones, avocado pits, you know, things that are really hard to break down because we're going to grind it up and dry it out.”
Rogers: Aggregated American food scraps create nutritious chicken feed
“So we're kind of building kind of an average American diet blend to feed chickens, which actually ends up being quite nutritious.”
Rogers: Mill is running about a dozen municipal pilot programs
“Actually, we've got about a dozen pilots kind of in work right now, where we're going to be deploying our memberships in partnership with cities to their residents to help them achieve their zero waste goals, or their food diversion goals, or their climate goa…”
Municipal green bin programs struggle because regular trash is easier for residents
“And even in a city that's doing everything right today, like, you know, Seattle, Tacoma area as an example, they have a green bin program, which people still don't use because in your kitchen, the easiest thing to do is throw it in the trash.”
Mill's initial marketing will focus on kitchen cleanliness rather than climate impact
“So I think for us going to market, especially these kind of first years, we're really going to be talking a lot about, you know, a better kitchen experience, less gross, stinky trash, no fruit flies, no rats, that kind of thing.”
Rogers: Mill membership will cost about one dollar per day
“So the mill membership is going to cost about a dollar a day which, you know, it's like another kind of Netflix or YouTube subscription.”
Empty returning USPS trucks provide cheap capacity for reverse logistics
“The mail carrier comes to your house every day anyway. They come back to your house every day, they drop off the mail, they drop off packages, and they go back mostly empty. You know, those trucks drive back to the depot every day, and those trucks are usually…”
Mill appliance produces roughly one shoebox of odorless grounds monthly per home
“And we're not talking about a garbage truck load of food waste. We're talking like about a shoe box per household per month. So it's really not a lot of stuff and it doesn't smell, it doesn't go bad. So it doesn't need to get there urgently.”