Nov 30, 2023 · 39m · catalyst
EV charging on both sides of the pond
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of Catalyst, host Shail Khan and ev.energy CEO Nick Woolley compare the electric vehicle ecosystems of North America and Europe, analyzing how differing regulatory structures, charging networks, and automated managed charging programs can turn growing EV demand into flexible virtual power plants.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shayle holds 31.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 0.0 Shayle pushing back 0.4
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 24:34 Nick rejects dynamic rate rollout hype
Nick pushes back against popular industry proposals for blanket dynamic rates, arguing they impose unreasonable cognitive friction on consumers.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 24:34 Shayle insists on getting empirical compliance ratesShayle explicitly redirects the discussion back to an unanswered sub-question regarding hard compliance rates when utilities rely purely on passive rate incentives.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:50 Nick presents global charging session dataNick explains proprietary data from millions of sessions showing unmanaged charging spikes at 6-8 PM everywhere, disproving cultural variation hypotheses.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 34:21 Shayle deconstructs V2H resiliency versus V2G adoption timelinesShayle synthesizes his domain expertise to explain why low-frequency V2H resiliency makes immediate sense whereas daily V2G faces regulatory friction and consumer psychology barriers.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Canary Media and Latitude Media Support Appeal | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Introductory donation appeal by Stephen Lacey, a preview clip of the interview, and sponsor messaging for Bloom Energy and Engie. | |
| Transatlantic EV Market Comparison Overview | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Shayle frames the transatlantic EV adoption comparison, while Nick provides detailed market figures regarding EV penetration and network concentration differences between the US and Europe. | |
| Interoperability and Roaming in European vs. US Networks | 5 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Shayle probes whether European urban density drives more public charging and tests assumptions about early adopters; Nick illustrates driver personas and roaming aggregators. | |
| Universal Unmanaged EV Charging Load Profiles | 5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Shayle asks if cultural differences shift unmanaged load profiles; Nick confirms that global driver charging habits show remarkably consistent 6-8 PM evening plugging spikes. | |
| Regulatory Structures: Vertically Integrated vs. Unbundled Markets | 6 | 3 | 0 | 1 | Shayle asks whether vertically integrated utilities capture managed charging value more easily than unbundled European markets, prompting Nick to outline regulatory trade-offs. | |
| Managed Charging Program Models and Rate Designs | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Shayle asks for concrete program archetypes, leading Nick to compare ConEd's off-peak rebate model with UK type-of-use retailer tariffs. | |
| Midroll Sponsor Messages: Bloom Energy and Engie | 5 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Following midroll sponsor reads, Shayle contrasts passive incentive carrots with direct utility control, and Nick details the grid dangers of timer peaks and dynamic rate complexity. | |
| Customer Compliance Rates and Behavioral Barriers | 5 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Shayle circles back to pin down specific consumer compliance rates; Nick discusses behavioral inertia and highlights UK smart charging mandates at vehicle point-of-sale. | |
| Price Elasticity, Incentives, and DER Integration | 6 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Shayle asks about price elasticity and the marginal impact of financial incentives; Nick emphasizes that onboarding timing and whole-home DER bundling matter more than marginal rate differentials. | |
| Evolution to Vehicle-to-Home and Vehicle-to-Grid Integration | 7 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Shayle and Nick evaluate V1G versus V2H and V2G, with Shayle detailing the psychological barrier of emergency range requirements and the distinction between home resiliency and grid export. | |
| Aggregate EV Virtual Power Plant Capacity Potential | 4 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Shayle prompts for total fleet VPP capacity figures, and Nick quantifies current aggregate EV storage against the Palo Verde nuclear station. |
Statements from this episode (16)
Woolley: Europe has 8M plug-in EVs compared to 4.5M in the US
“So there's about eight, eight million vehicles
I mean, plug-in vehicles in, in the European market right now, and over 50% now are battery electric.
And in the US it's around four and a half million, and again, over 50% now are battery electric.”
Woolley: US EV charging networks are concentrated while Europe's are fragmented
“The networks tend to be much more concentrated in the United States.
So we have big networks that span across the entirety of the US.
Versus in Europe, there is huge fragmentation.
If you go to somewhere like Germany, there are literally hundreds of different …”
Woolley: European EV charging uses roaming aggregators unlike standalone US networks
“There are what we call roaming aggregators within the European market. So there's companies like Hubject and Jurev that allow for platforms on the other side to interface with a variety of different charging infrastructure networks and provide a single seamles…”
Woolley: Vertically integrated utilities hold structural advantage for managed charging
“I think it is an advantage because what you do is you create clear line of sight all the way through to the value that's created. So if you are running a managed charging program, say in New York, we work with Con Edison. In New York's service territory, we ca…”
Woolley: UK energy retailers offer discounted type-of-use tariffs for managed EV charging
“The propositions that are being rolled out in competitive markets like the UK are tariffs which have now become known as what's called type of use tariffs. So a type of use tariff is a tariff that applies to a specific device within your home, like an electric…”
Woolley: Unmanaged EV charging could increase peak grid load by 50%
“A first level, which is unmanaged, which is really bad for the grid. We just get load happening at peak times, and that, that is going to be really, really bad for the grid. Some estimates say that that's going to be, like, an increase of peak load by, like, 5…”
Woolley: Static time-of-use EV rates trigger massive secondary timer peaks
“The next level is, like, maybe you provide a time of use rate, and obviously, in markets like California, we've provided time of use rates. The big con to that is, what you get is, you get this massive secondary peak. You get what's called a timer peak. So you…”
Woolley: Broad rollout of dynamic electricity rates is overly complex for consumers
“You don't want to make the proposition too complex because I mean, I hear a lot about like, well, let's just roll out like dynamic rates to everybody within, within markets. And I'm personally not necessarily a fan of doing that. I think some consumers will li…”
Woolley: Some California EV drivers pay punitive rates without changing charging habits
“However, what we see in California with some of our partners that we're working with, what they've done is they've rolled out time of use rates, and they've sort of forced that on consumers. And so, and some of those consumers have not changed their behavior a…”
Woolley: Vehicle purchase point is the best time to enroll EV drivers in charging programs
“And so the best point to enroll a customer on a program is the point at which they're purchasing an electric vehicle.”
Woolley: UK regulations mandate all new home EV chargers be smart and grid-controllable
“In the UK, they rolled out a regulation called the Smart Charging Regulations, which actually mandates every charger that goes into somebody's home now has to be smart and has to be controllable by the grid.”
Woolley: EV purchases often trigger home solar and DER adoption
“When you buy an EV, you often buy solar panels as well. Or you get other DERs that are associated with your home, because you start to become very aware about, like, the whole home and the ecosystem and how you're managing your energy.”
Woolley: Vehicle-to-home backup power will definitely roll out in North America
“I think vehicle to home to provide resiliency in North America is a thing. I was struck by, I mean, I've done some time in the United States, and when I first went out there From the energy perspective, I was fascinated by this thing where people used to go to…”
Kann: Vehicle-to-grid power will happen long term but not quickly
“I think in the long arc of history, it probably does happen, because at some point, you just look at the total capacity that's going to be sitting in batteries at people's homes overnight, and the notion that we would never use it to support the needs of the g…”
Woolley: Current US and European EV peak capacity equals three nuclear power stations
“Well, right now, so, like, if there's about thirteen million electric vehicles across Europe and the US, so, like, eight million and about five million in the US and so that's about 13 gigawatts at peak of load, which is probably, in the US, right now, untappe…”
Woolley: EV capacity will add a nuclear plant's worth of power every two years
“We'll probably hit that capacity again in the next two years. So we could be basically adding capacity at the rate of a new nuclear power station on the grid every couple of years, and of course that growth is accelerating vastly.”