Aug 26, 2026 · 1h 30m · bigdeal
The Psychology of Cheaters (According To A Divorce Lawyer) | James Sexton
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Host Codie Sanchez sits down with veteran New York divorce attorney James Sexton to explore the underlying causes of marital dissolution, the psychology behind infidelity, and practical frameworks for sustaining long-term relational intimacy. Drawing on decades of trial experience, Sexton outlines actionable strategies for fostering proactive communication, intentional micro-actions, and radical emotional vulnerability.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Codie holds 12.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Codie as informed peer 2.8 Guest teaching 5.9 Guest disagreement 1.1 Codie pushing back 0.0
speaking balance: gold is Codie, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 50:55 Dismissing crowd pandering and online backlash
Sexton forcefully rejects online algorithms and mob outrage, insisting that genuine insights require turning your back on the audience rather than seeking easy validation.
Hardest push from Codie ▶ 1:16:43 Challenging the rationality of marriageCodie directly questions why anyone, including Sexton, would choose marriage given its roughly 70 percent failure rate.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:02:00 Dissecting the 8 Mile cross-examination techniqueSexton provides a comprehensive masterclass on neutralizing opposing counsel by exposing your client's deepest flaws before the other side can weaponize them.
Codie holds their own ▶ 1:08:15 Connecting Texan dealmaking to covert legal advocacyCodie draws upon her private equity and acquisition background to identify how seasoned negotiators utilize faux-humility and slow drawls to outmaneuver opponents.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Codie as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Codie pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Telltale Indicators of Impending Marital Dissolution | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie opens with an inquiry about the earliest telltale signs of a failing marriage. Sexton details how subtle vocal shifts, dismissive tones, and gradual emotional detachment signal impending dissolution. | |
| Countering Relationship Apathy Through Intentional Micro-Actions | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Codie shares a personal anecdote regarding interrupting repeated dinner stories and asks how to intentionally reverse apathy. Sexton explains how micro-habits and unprompted affection compound to rescue intimacy. | |
| Establishing Evidence of Love and Implementing Weekly Check-Ins | 3 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie asks how to detect performative hostility between partners in social settings. Sexton applies a legal evidentiary framework, arguing that tangible proof of consideration is required to substantiate love. | |
| Social Media Illusions and the Absence of Relationship Education | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie asks whether sharing relationship milestones on social media correlates with marital failure. Sexton observes how curated digital displays create deceptive illusions while fundamental relational skills remain untaught. | |
| The Gradual Erosion of Focus and Relationship Drift | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Codie prompts Sexton on why affairs and emotional drift unfold incrementally. Sexton compares marital failure to bankruptcy, noting how daily distractions slowly siphon necessary attention from romantic partners. | |
| Sponsor: SoFi Small Business Lending Platform | 1 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Following a brief business sponsor transition, Codie asks how parenthood drives divorce. Sexton explains how infant care unintentionally drains bandwidth, encouraging couples to proactively address relational drift. | |
| Navigating Gender Communication, Defensiveness, and Dead Bedrooms | 3 | 7 | 2 | 0 | Codie asks what women frequently misunderstand about men in romantic relationships. Sexton critiques reflexive gender defensiveness and demonstrates how past romantic memories can gently reignite physical intimacy without generating resentment. | |
| Deconstructing the Marital Moat and Legal Fiction vs. Reality | 3 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Codie inquires why defensive reactions are uniquely pronounced with spouses, leading Sexton to describe marriage as an illusory protective moat. The conversation turns playful as Codie teases Sexton about his wardrobe and television portrayals of legal life. | |
| Psychological Differences in Infidelity and the Monogamy Economy | 3 | 7 | 2 | 0 | Codie asks about distinct gender psychology in infidelity. Sexton breaks down the contrasting initial questions men and women ask upon discovering cheating and outlines the transactional economy of monogamy. | |
| Book Announcement: Codie Sanchez's Owner Be Owned | 3 | 6 | 2 | 0 | Following a quick plug for Codie's business book, Sexton discusses infidelity prevalence and the destructive trap of comparing real partners to unattainable imaginary ideals. | |
| Online Outrage, Polarization, and Embracing Public Truth | 3 | 5 | 2 | 0 | Codie recounts public backlash to social media clips discussing gendered desires. Sexton argues against pandering to online outrage, emphasizing the necessity of detached objectivity and standing by uncomfortable realities. | |
| Relational Polarity and the Power of Rhetorical Framing | 4 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie connects rhetorical framing to sales strategies, noting how presentation shapes perception. Sexton illustrates with an allegory of praying while smoking and recounts how positive reinforcement altered personal habits. | |
| Strategic Cross-Examination and the 8 Mile Trial Technique | 3 | 8 | 2 | 0 | Codie asks for litigation frameworks to compel compliance during high-stakes questioning. Sexton explains how pinning witnesses to broad principles forces admissions and shares his pre-emptive cross-examination strategy. | |
| Covert Advocacy, Negotiation Strategy, and Understanding Judicial Proclivities | 4 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie compares covert negotiation to subtle Texan business tactics she encounters in acquisitions. Sexton agrees, highlighting that effective advocacy relies on strategic humility and catering directly to judicial inclinations. | |
| Establishing Conflict Rules and Providing an Emotional Menu | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Sexton details the preparation required prior to trial and relates it to establishing rules for arguments in marriage. He outlines providing an emotional menu of support options rather than offering unsolicited fixes. | |
| The Enduring Reality of Love and Redefining Marital Chapters | 3 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie challenges the rationale for marriage given high statistical failure rates. Sexton reframes past relationships not as failures, but as meaningful chapters in an ongoing life narrative. | |
| Radical Accountability and Moving Beyond Relational Blame | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Codie notes the discomfort people feel acknowledging past relationship shortfalls. Sexton illustrates how taking radical, unilateral accountability defuses ongoing resentment and opens space for authentic healing. | |
| True Vulnerability, Courthouse Realities, and Passion for the Craft | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Codie and Sexton wrap up the interview with lighthearted banter regarding courthouse culture, parental advice, and balancing professional media visibility with demanding operational work. |
Statements from this episode (14)
Sexton: Impending divorce sounds like contemptuous tone, not argument content
“I've always said like, to me, the sound of a marriage that's about to end is, is like, it's a very simple, subtle sound. It's this, it's what? Huh? Yeah, whatever. Like, it's a tone of voice more than a content. And the tone of voice says everything. It's like…”
Sexton: 60% to 70% of marriages end in divorce or unhappy coexistence
“You know, 50% or so of marriages end catastrophically, meaning they divorce. Another 10 to 20% either separate but never file for divorce, go out for milk and never come back, or they just sort of unhappily stay together and under surveys basically say, yeah, …”
Sexton: Couples should do a weekly three-part feedback check-in
“Why wouldn't we, as an exercise, together, if we're in a relationship, why wouldn't we, once a week, tell me three things I did this week that made you feel loved. Tell me three things I did this week that I could have done better. Tell me three things I did t…”
Sexton: Breakups happen like bankruptcy, slowly then all at once
“Well, they happen, I think they happen like bankruptcies happen, very slowly and then all at once. Like, I think it's very gradual, like falling feels like flying for a little while, you know, and then you hit the ground.”
Sexton: Having Children Causes Disconnection That Later Drives Divorce
“I think it's an impetus for the disconnection that is the impetus for divorce.”
Sexton: Culture Turns Male Vulnerability Into a Hardship Competition
“One of the things that women right now get really, really wrong because the culture is jamming it down their throats, is that anytime a man says anything about what's difficult for him, that it turns into a pissing match between the two of them of, do you know…”
Sexton: Marriage is an illusion of security, not real protection
“Marriage is a symbol. That's all it is. It's a symbol. We've decided we're gonna create this legal connection or spiritual connection that's gonna symbolize this way of keeping the relationship safe. It's an illusion. It's not real.”
Sexton: Men ask if cheater had sex; women ask if they're in love
“The thing that's interesting to me, and I've talked about before, and I talk about my book, is the question when people are confronted about adultery. Because the man's first question is, did you have sex with him? And the woman's first question is, do you lov…”
Sexton: Monogamy is an economic trade of freedom for companionship and sex
“I've always said in relationship, like, if you're gonna rob me of solitude, you owe me companionship. If I'm gonna trade having sex with lots of women For having sex with you regularly. Then that's the deal. Like that's the economy that we've agreed to.”
Sexton: Infidelity plays a role in 70% to 80% of divorces
“I would be speculating, because it's hard to measure those things. I would say close to 70 to 80%. Where there's some, where infidelity played some part, in some degree.”
Sexton: Marital infidelity and dishonesty are symptoms of disconnection, not root causes
“I tend to think that I look at the infidelity, the financial impropriety, the dishonesty, all as the symptoms of the underlying illness, and the illness is the disconnection.”
James Sexton charges a $1,000 hourly billing rate to argue cases
“I get paid to
A thousand dollars an hour to argue.”