Jun 25, 2021 · 1h 19m · allin
E37: NYC rejects far-left candidates, new developments in lab leak theory, App Store breakup & more
David Friedberg · 19m spoken Jason Calacanis · 19m spoken David Sacks · 16m spoken Chamath Palihapitiya · 15m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In Episode 37 of The All-In Podcast, the co-hosts debate podcasting philosophy, analyze the NYC mayoral primary election results, examine newly uncovered COVID-19 lab leak data, and deliberate bipartisan antitrust legislation targeting tech monopolies like Apple.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 99.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 5.4 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 3.9 The hosts pushing back 3.6
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 59:42 Friedberg calls out co-hosts' financial bias
Friedberg forcefully challenges Sacks and Chamath, claiming they only support government intervention against Apple because it financially benefits their startup portfolios.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 1:02:07 Sacks rejects Friedberg's free market framingSacks flatly rejects Friedberg's free market defense, asserting that Apple operates an insurmountable operating system monopoly rather than a free market.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 29:45 Friedberg explains cloud API forensic data retrievalFriedberg educates the rest of the room on how raw genomic sequencing reads were recovered from Google Cloud storage after being deleted from primary database indices.
The host holds their own ▶ 53:01 Sacks applies historical geopolitical frameworkSacks demonstrates deep political domain expertise by citing Lee Kuan Yew and Graham Allison to reframe the China economic decoupling debate.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Episode 37 Welcome & Pre-Show Group Chat Banter | 3 | 2 | 4 | 3 | The co-hosts engage in friendly pre-show group chat banter and discuss podcast format preferences. Friedberg argues against reductionist soundbites while Sacks defends hard takes and concise clips. | |
| Expanding the Overton Window & Resisting Outrage Culture | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Sacks explains his objective on the podcast to expand the Overton window and resist outrage culture. He cites Frank Slootman's public apology regarding diversity and merit as evidence of suppressed public debate. | |
| NYC Mayoral Election: Rejection of Far-Left Candidates & Social Media Distortion | 5 | 3 | 3 | 3 | The hosts discuss the New York City mayoral election, highlighting Eric Adams's success as a rejection of far-left crime policies. Sacks emphasizes that social media commentary does not reflect actual voter behavior. | |
| COVID-19 Lab Leak Data Deletion, Geopolitics, & China Decoupling | 7 | 5 | 4 | 4 | Friedberg details how researcher Jesse Bloom uncovered deleted early COVID-19 genomic sequences using Google Cloud APIs. He provides a scientific breakdown of viral lineage while addressing lab leak hypotheses. | |
| Lab Leak Theory & Geopolitics of China | 6 | 4 | 3 | 3 | Sacks frames the China geopolitical debate around Graham Allison's Thucydides Trap and quotes Lee Kuan Yew on China's massive historical scale. | |
| Antitrust Bills & App Store Monopolies Debate | 7 | 4 | 7 | 7 | Friedberg forcefully opposes proposed antitrust legislation against Apple, accusing the other co-hosts of hypocritical self-interest. Sacks and Calacanis strongly push back, labeling Apple an unchecked monopoly. | |
| Antonio García Martínez's Bad Apple & Apple Culture | 5 | 3 | 3 | 2 | The hosts review Antonio Garcia Martinez's Substack article analyzing Apple's corporate culture. Sacks reads the conclusion comparing modern tech titans to the totalitarian figure from Apple's 1984 commercial. | |
| Market Competition vs Monopoly & Cultural Shift | 6 | 4 | 5 | 5 | Friedberg argues that founder-led market challengers like Shopify and Square will naturally disrupt tech monopolies without government intervention. Chamath counters that government regulatory friction is necessary to curb market overreach. |
Statements from this episode (19)
Sacks: Frank Slootman issued apology following uproar over diversity comments
“The whole Frank Slootman thing last week where he puts out a pretty Mild statement about supporting diversity, but not to the point where it's, it jeopardizes merit. You know, there was a giant uproar over that. He has to walk it back and issue an apology.”
Sacks predicts Eric Adams will become mayor of New York City
“Look, I mean, Eric Adams is going to be the next mayor of New York City.”
Sacks predicts crime will be a major national political issue
“So, number one, crime is the huge issue, and I think it's going to reverberate throughout America for the next few years.”
Friedberg predicts a surge in COVID variants and engineered bioweapons
“We are going to have a lot more of these kind of emerging variants over the next couple of years with SARS-CoV-T, but also with potentially engineered bugs that we need to be careful about.”
Chamath: It's 'pretty clear' COVID-19 leaked from the Wuhan lab
“It's pretty clear that this was something that leaked out of that lab.”
Chamath predicts new COVID variants in fall 2021 leading to tough winter
“Now we're going to hear about other variants in the fall. It's going to be a tough winter.”
Sacks predicts more damaging evidence will emerge on COVID-19 origins
“I actually disagree with you guys that we're not going to learn more about what happened. We're going to learn a lot more. And it's going to get worse and worse.”
Chamath predicts China's population will shrink to 700 million
“China's population , I think is projected to shrink to about seven hundred million people.”
Friedberg: Desktop 'vaccine printers' will download code to print local vaccines
“Well, we are going to enter a stage here in the next decade where we will have vaccine printers around the world. There are going to be small bioreactors. You're going to be able to effectively ship code to them. They're going to print vaccines.”
Chamath: Virology research labs lack mature checks and balances
“I'm going to go on a limb and say that these labs are immature, naive, and unsophisticated in the checks and balances that exist.”
Friedberg: Government antitrust intervention depresses innovation standards
“I think the best way to destroy a monopoly is to build better technology that disrupts them. And that has always been the case throughout history. And anytime government gets involved and tries to break up a monopoly in a way that is not natural to the way the…”
Sacks: Operating system monopolies have insuperable developer network effects
“The developer network effects around an operating system monopoly are insuperable. They, you cannot overthrow them.”
Calacanis: Apple's 30% App Store fee hurts portfolio company margins
“We're saying get rid of the 30% app store fee because that negatively impacts our portfolios. Let's be clear here. This is screwing with the margins at a lot of the companies we invested.”
Calacanis: Apple lowering App Store fee to 15% would end developer backlash
“If Apple just made the take rate 15%, this entire thing goes away. Epic Games feels great. Spotify's feel great.”
Calacanis: Antonio García Martínez makes $300K-$700K on Substack after Apple firing
“He is getting paid probably 300,000 to 700,000 dollars To write on Stubstack after getting fired, and after getting a giant settlement from Apple, whatever that's gonna be.”
Sacks: Apple is run by HR people and woke mobs
“The reality is the great genius who founded Apple is long gone. It is run by HR people and woke mobs.”
Sachs: Apple has no innovation left and just collects rents
“And so there is no more innovation there. They are just a gatekeeper collecting rents.”
Friedberg predicts Shopify, Square, and Stripe will disrupt Apple and Amazon
“I think that over the next decade, because of exactly what you guys said, that Apple is run by managers who don't want to see loss, but aren't driven to gain, you're going to end up seeing Amazon in particular, and Apple likely as well, Lose to the likes of Sh…”
Calacanis: Cancel culture is ending and the Overton window will expand
“I think the pirates are assembling themselves, whether it's Coinbase saying we're not going to have politics at work or Antonio, and the end of cancel culture, the end of taking the hysterical left or the historic or the trolling right seriously, I feel like t…”