Sep 8, 2023 · 2h 8m · allin
In conversation with Chris Christie
Chris Christie · 1h 3m spoken David Sacks · 19m spoken Jason Calacanis · 14m spoken Chamath Palihapitiya · 8m spoken David Friedberg · 6m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this extended episode of the All-In Podcast, former New Jersey Governor and 2024 Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie engages in a wide-ranging, in-depth discussion covering the national debt, foreign policy, law enforcement, and Donald Trump's legal battles, followed by host analysis on the 2024 presidential landscape.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 42.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 3.9 Guest disagreement 3.4 The hosts pushing back 4.0
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:40:25 Christie mocks Trump's declassification theory
Christie forcefully rejects Sacks's selective prosecution defense of Trump, calling Trump's mind-melding declassification claims laughable bullshit.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 1:03:36 Friedberg pushes back using the Federalist PapersFriedberg directly challenges Christie's proposal for federal prosecutors to usurp local city policing by citing constitutional federalism and state sovereignty.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 1:08:00 Christie explains New Jersey criminal justice reformChristie thoroughly educates the hosts on how he negotiated a bipartisan bail reform model in New Jersey that simultaneously reduced violent crime, closed state prisons, and lowered recidivism.
The host holds their own ▶ 39:29 Chamath breaks down zero-based budgeting principlesChamath uses private equity discipline to push Christie on whether defense budgeting should build up from zero rather than defaulting to baseline spending.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| All-In Podcast Title Sequence | 6 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Friedberg opens by laying out detailed fiscal statistics regarding the $2 trillion deficit, 130% debt-to-GDP ratio, and entitlement insolvency. Christie agrees with the premises and shares his record in New Jersey cutting 683 programs to balance the state budget. | |
| Foreign Policy Foundations & The Iraq War Debate | 6 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Sacks presses Christie on endorsing Trump in 2016 shortly after Trump attacked the Bush administration over the Iraq War. Christie defends his position by explaining he wanted to stop Hillary Clinton and calls Trump's debate answers sophomoric. | |
| Christie's Decision Not to Run in 2012 | 4 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Sacks asks Christie why he chose not to run for president in 2012 despite strong political momentum. Christie provides a straightforward answer that he simply was not ready in his heart to be president at that time. | |
| Biden Family Involvement in Ukraine & Burisma | 7 | 3 | 3 | 4 | Sacks interrogates Christie like a prosecutor regarding Hunter Biden, Burisma, Victoria Nuland's call, and Joe Biden's pseudonymous emails. Christie largely concurs that the financial arrangements were indefensible and burner accounts raise prosecutorial red flags. | |
| Responsibility for the Ukraine War & NATO Expansion | 6 | 4 | 4 | 5 | Jason and Sacks question Christie on responsibility for the war in Ukraine and NATO expansion history. Christie firmly places the blame on Putin while criticizing past US presidents for sending weak signals. | |
| Defense Spending, Military Industrial Complex & Zero-Based Budgeting | 7 | 5 | 5 | 7 | Chamath and Sacks challenge Christie on the $877 billion defense budget and military waste. Chamath pushes Christie on adopting zero-based budgeting principles, which Christie agrees with based on his New Jersey gubernatorial experience. | |
| US Border Crisis, Merit-Based Immigration & Fentanyl Threat | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | Jason presents migration charts while Sacks argues the southern border is in severe crisis. Christie criticizes Biden's border signals and advocates for a merit-based immigration system alongside National Guard deployments for fentanyl control. | |
| Federal Role in Law Enforcement and Urban Crime | 6 | 5 | 4 | 7 | Christie proposes directing federal prosecutors to take over violent crime cases in progressive cities. Friedberg pushes back firmly by invoking the Federalist Papers and constitutional limits on federal power. | |
| Criminal Justice Reform and New Jersey's Bipartisan Model | 4 | 8 | 2 | 3 | Friedberg asks about mass incarceration and justice reform. Christie educates the panel on his bipartisan New Jersey bail reform model, detailing how changing risk assessments reduced crime and recidivism while closing prisons. | |
| FBI Social Media Surveillance and DOJ Independence | 5 | 4 | 3 | 4 | Sacks questions Christie about FBI social media monitoring revealed in the Twitter files. Christie states FBI monitoring should strictly be limited to foreign or domestic terrorism and asserts presidents must stay out of DOJ investigations. | |
| Christie's 2024 Presidential Strategy and Primary Focus | 6 | 5 | 5 | 6 | Friedberg confronts Christie with low national polling numbers and high unfavorable ratings. Christie defends his strategy centered on New Hampshire and breaks down which Trump indictments are legally legitimate versus political. | |
| January 6th Insurrection and Seditious Conspiracy Prosecutions | 5 | 6 | 5 | 5 | Jason asks about January 6th seditious conspiracy sentences, while Chamath asks Christie to address state political controversies. Christie clarifies the facts around the beach closure and notes the Supreme Court unanimously vindicated his administration in Bridgegate. | |
| Debating Jack Smith's Prosecutions and DOJ Timing | 7 | 5 | 7 | 8 | Sacks aggressively debates Christie on Jack Smith's January 6th indictment theory regarding proving Trump's intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Christie counters Sacks by asserting Trump personally acknowledged to him in 2020 that he lost the election. | |
| Character Evolution of Trump and the Impact of Russiagate | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | Jason asks if Trump attempted to overturn the election. Christie argues that power corrupted Trump over 20 years, while acknowledging to Sacks that the illegitimate Russiagate investigation fueled Trump's grievance complex. | |
| Documents Case: Selective Prosecution, Box Obsession, and Declassification | 6 | 6 | 8 | 7 | Sacks argues selective prosecution on Trump's classified documents case compared to Biden and Clinton. Christie forcefully rejects the comparison, calling Trump's mind-meld declassification defense laughable bullshit and highlighting his bizarre fixation on keeping physical document boxes. | |
| Political Influence and Grift: Hunter Biden vs Jared Kushner & Trump PACs | 6 | 6 | 8 | 6 | When Sacks attempts to refocus on Biden family corruption, Christie turns the tables on Jared Kushner receiving $2 billion from Saudi Arabia and Trump using grassroots donor funds for personal legal defense and political grift. | |
| Interview Conclusion, Karaoke Banter, and Farewell | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | The interview concludes with friendly banter about an Idaho karaoke session, sports team ownership, and closing compliments. | |
| Post-Interview Debrief: Friedberg and Chamath on Christie and GOP Field | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Post-interview debrief segment among the hosts without the guest. Friedberg and Chamath share their impressions of Christie's performance and prospects against Vivek Ramaswamy and Donald Trump. | |
| Analysis of Hunter Biden Legal Troubles and Impact on Joe Biden | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Post-interview debrief segment among the hosts without the guest. The hosts discuss the impending Hunter Biden indictments and the potential political fallout for Joe Biden. | |
| Debriefing Chris Christie's Interview and Legal Stances | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Post-interview debrief segment among the hosts without the guest. Sacks analyzes Christie's legal commentary on Trump's indictments and foreign policy positions. | |
| 2024 Presidential Candidates and Ukraine Litmus Test | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Post-interview debrief segment among the hosts without the guest. Sacks and Jason lay out their criteria for candidate support based on Ukraine war de-escalation and fiscal sanity. |
Statements from this episode (49)
Calacanis: Trump added nearly $8 trillion to debt, Biden added $4 trillion
“Trump added almost eight trillion. Biden's added four trillion.”
Friedberg: US deficit exceeds $2T and debt-to-GDP surpasses 130%
“The US government deficit in excess of two trillion dollars this year, debt to GDP in excess of a 130%.”
Christie advocates raising Social Security retirement age and means testing
“On the entitlement side, I think I'm the only person who's been talking about this and saying out loud, we've got to consider raising retirement age and we've got to consider means testing and eligibility for social security.”
Christie: A leader's job is to change polls, not follow them
“A leader's job is not to follow polls, it's to change them.”
Christie: Few would have supported Iraq War without WMD claims
“When it turned out that he didn't have WMD, I don't think there would have been many people who would have been supportive of the Iraq war absent WMD.”
Christie: Endorsed Trump in 2016 to stop Hillary Clinton
“I endorsed him because I was convinced he was going to be the Republican nominee for president. And I didn't want Hillary Clinton to be the president.”
Christie: Donald Trump was a better 2016 choice than Hillary Clinton
“So I defaulted into Trump because I thought he was a better choice than Hillary Clinton. And by the way, still do think he was a better choice than Hillary Clinton.”
Christie: The US Senate is a bad training ground for the presidency
“Your staff really runs everything. At least with many of the senators and that's why it's such a bad training ground for the presidency in my view.”
Christie: Using burner accounts is suspicious and warrants legal inquiry
“When I saw someone having a burner phone or other types of burner accounts, definitely made me say, let's take a look a little more closely at that and see what we can find. Yeah. So at a minimum, it's suspicious for sure and deserves inquiry.”
Chris Christie: Ukraine joining NATO is a foregone conclusion
“I think it is now a foregone conclusion that Ukraine will be admitted to NATO, and frankly, it's got to be now, I think, one of the penalties and one of the prices that Putin pays for his aggression.”
Christie: Taking NATO off table in 2021 would not have avoided war
“So no, I wouldn't have been willing to do it in 21 in order to avoid it because quite frankly, I don't believe that it would have avoided it just would have forestalled it.”
Christie: Trump, DeSantis, and Ramaswamy foreign policies are hopelessly naive
“And this is where I think that the Trump DeSantis, Ramaswamy foreign policies are so hopelessly ill-informed and naive.”
Christie: $877B defense budget shows clear waste given artillery shell shortages
“There's no doubt that when you see us spending eight hundred seventy seven billion and we don't have 155 millimeter artillery shells that there's waste.”
Christie: Congress will never pass revolving door restrictions on itself
“It'll never apply to Congress because they'd have to pass it for it to apply, and it will never happen.”
Sacks: Illegal family border crossings hit an all-time high in August 2023
“Do you see the Washington Post just last week? The headline is, families crossing U.S. Border illegally reached all-time high in August.”
Christie: Overdoses killed 110k Americans last year, top killer of young men
“Because when you have a 110,000 people dying of overdoses last year in this country, and you have overdose being the number one killer of men between 18 and 34.”
Christie: Would deploy National Guard to border, not invade Mexico for cartels
“No, I, no, I w I would not. I would put national guard at the border to work with customs and border patrol to stop the fentanyl cartels from getting in to our country.”
Christie: I would order federal prosecutors to take over local prosecutions
“What I would do would be to instruct the attorney general to instruct the U S attorneys in the cities with these kinds of problems. That we are taking over the prosecution of violent and drug crime in those cities.”
Christie: Soros group is electing liberal prosecutors who refuse to prosecute
“This is the Soros group going around and electing these completely liberal prosecutors who say, no, I don't, I'm not going to prosecute these crimes anymore.”
Christie: New York City is at its worst point since the 1970s
“It is the worst I've seen New York City since the late seventies.”
Christie: 98% of defendants released under NJ bail reform returned to court
“98% of the people released on their own recognizance have shown back up for their court hearings.”
Sacks: Twitter Files showed 80 FBI agents monitored social media accounts
“One of the revelations that came out during the Twitter files is that we had 80 FBI agents monitoring Americans' social media accounts and submitting takedown requests to Twitter.”
Christie: White House interference in DOJ began under President Obama
“I think that started in the Obama years with Eric Holder. When you appoint your wingman attorney general, I guess that's what happens. And the fact is that It's continued through the Trump years and now through the Biden years.”
Christie: I would not have brought the NY or Georgia Trump indictments
“I would have indicted both federal cases. I would not have indicted the New York case or the Atlanta case as to Donald Trump.”
Christie: Sending Donald Trump to prison would not make sense
“I don't think that it makes any sense for Donald Trump to go to jail, and it's not just because he's Donald Trump. It has more to do, quite frankly, with the fact that he'd probably be 79 years old Before he'd be ready to go to jail.”
Christie: Actions of January 6th rioters were unlawful and require imprisonment
“What I want to say about it though, is that what they did on January six was Unlawful. It was extremely serious and it requires imprisonment.”
Sacks: DOJ cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt Trump knew claims were false
“And Jack Smith's case depends on knowing the inner workings of Trump's mind. This like fraud on the American people idea that he not only made up this stolen election narrative, but he knew it was false, which I don't see how they're ever going to prove beyond…”
Christie: Donald Trump does not actually believe the 2020 election was stolen
“I believe, given what I know, that Donald Trump does not believe that the election was stolen. That's what I believe from knowing him for 22 years and from being with him in much of the pre-election period and him expressing his very genuine concerns about the…”
Christie: Trump is running for president to get retribution against enemies
“No, I think he wants retribution from the seat of power for everybody who thinks did him wrong.”
Christie: Trump would have willingly accepted overturning the 2020 election
“I don't think he would have any, he would have had any problem with the election being overturned. And I think if it was, he would have been more than happy to have his rear end sleeping in the white house tonight.”
Christie: Trump is the only president since Bush 41 not humbled by office
“Every president going back to Bush, 41, every one of them, regardless of my disagreements with them on policy were matured and humbled by the office, except for him. Well, so the office made him worse. It made him a worse person.”
Christie: Trump 2016 campaign was too disorganized to conspire with Russia
“That campaign was so bad and so disorganized, they couldn't have arranged a two-car funeral, let alone conspired with the Russian government to interfere with the election.”
Christie: Hillary Clinton was the worst presidential candidate in his lifetime
“It was amateurish and it won because they ran against the worst presidential candidate in my lifetime in Hillary Clinton.”
Christie: Trump wouldn't face prosecution if he returned documents when requested
“If he had turned over the documents he illegally had at any point when he was being requested to from February of 20, 21 through to when the search occurred, there would be no prosecution.”
Christie: Trump reserved a dedicated plane seat for document boxes in 2016
“He, I used to campaign with him. He would have a box of documents. Now back then it was 2016. It was a box of documents from Trump Tower. No one could touch them. No one could look at them. He'd go through them a little bit, but they, he literally had a seat f…”
Christie: Trump retained classified documents to show off, not sell them
“He didn't do it to sell the documents. He didn't do them to give them to some foreign power. He did them to show off.”
Christie: Kushner and Ivanka made $40M+ yearly in White House, $2B from Saudis
“Jared and Ivanka making 40 plus million dollars a year while they were in the White House, getting two billion from the Saudis to invest after they leave the White House”
Christie: Save America PAC paid $60k to Guilfoyle and $208k to Melania's stylist
“That same organization paid Kimberly Guilfoyle's 60 grand to give a three-minute speech on January sixth and pay 208,000 dollars to Melania's stylist as political strategy.”
Friedberg: 31% of US debt faces refinancing in 2023
“Again, 31% of US debt coming up for refinancing this year.”
Friedberg: US interest on debt exceeds military budget in 2023
“It's going to be, you know, and we're already seeing, by the way, this year interest expense on the debt is greater than the military spending.”
Palihapitiya: DeSantis campaign will suffer a withering, embarrassing end
“I, and I was very clear early on that his campaign was DOA, and I think that that's probably just gonna, he's going to have a withering, kind of embarrassing end to the campaign, unfortunately for him.”
Palihapitiya: Hunter Biden will be in jail by 2024 election
“I think there's a very good chance that Biden's son. He's in jail by the time the election comes around”
Sacks: Judge rejected Hunter Biden's plea deal over foreign lobbying immunity
“What the DOJ tried to do was a settlement with Hunter Biden, where he would plead guilty on that same gun charge because it's kind of a nothing charge, but then buried deep in that settlement was a broad immunity on all of the foreign lobbying he was doing, th…”
Palihapitiya: A Republican president will reopen the Hunter Biden investigation
“And then the next president, if it's Republican will reopen it. So whatever happens here will need to be definitive.”
Sacks: Joe Biden has had the most hawkish Ukraine policy of any US president
“I'm sorry, but Biden has had the most hawkish policy on Ukraine that any president's ever had.”
Sacks: Ukraine war policy is top 2024 presidential litmus test
“For me, the number one issue is whether the president, the next president will seek to deescalate or end the Ukraine war, or they will seek to escalate it.”