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Aug 4, 2021 · 20m · we-live-to-build

We Talked to 70 Customers and Sold Nothing — Here's Why

Ryo Chikazawa · 11m spoken Sean Weisbrot · 6m spoken
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In this episode of 'We Live to Build,' host Sean Weisbrot speaks with Autify CEO Ryo Chikazawa about how rigorous customer discovery, accelerator accountability, and an overnight pivot transformed an unsellable product into a venture-backed, AI-powered test automation platform.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Sean holds 37.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Sean as informed peer 2.8 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 0.4 Sean pushing back 1.4
05100:0010:0020:002:19–5:41 · Sean as informed peer 3/10 Introducing Autify and Deciding to Join an Accelerator Sean asks exploratory questions regarding Ryo's application timeline to accelerators. Ryo explains the realities of repeated rejections and dismisses Sean's theory about accelerators testing founder resilience.5:41–8:08 · Sean as informed peer 2/10 Entering Alchemist Accelerator and the Demo Day Ultimatum Sean asks about the logistics and initial shock of joining Alchemist. Ryo details the advisor ultimatum requiring paying customers to earn a Demo Day spot.8:15–13:43 · Sean as informed peer 3/10 Ravi Belani's Core Rules: Painkillers and Market Size Sean steers Ryo to elaborate on Ravi Belani's painkiller philosophy after Ryo focuses on market size. Ryo delivers an extensive case study on conducting 70-80 customer calls, diagnosing pain points, and building a mock-up to validate demand.13:43–17:16 · Sean as informed peer 3/10 Reflecting on Founder Pivots and Accelerator Benefits Sean connects Ryo's journey to his own founder experience with pivoting, then probes directly into whether Demo Day actually converted into seed capital. Ryo transparently explains that Demo Day did not directly close his seed round.17:17–19:48 · Sean as informed peer 3/10 Leveraging Accelerator Prestige and Managing Investor Relationships Sean inquires how Alchemist's brand prestige assisted in Japan and asks about CRM practices for US investor follow-ups. Ryo explains the strategic benefit of being the first Japanese Alchemist graduate.2:19–5:41 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Autify and Deciding to Join an Accelerator Sean asks exploratory questions regarding Ryo's application timeline to accelerators. Ryo explains the realities of repeated rejections and dismisses Sean's theory about accelerators testing founder resilience.5:41–8:08 · Guest teaching 3/10 Entering Alchemist Accelerator and the Demo Day Ultimatum Sean asks about the logistics and initial shock of joining Alchemist. Ryo details the advisor ultimatum requiring paying customers to earn a Demo Day spot.8:15–13:43 · Guest teaching 4/10 Ravi Belani's Core Rules: Painkillers and Market Size Sean steers Ryo to elaborate on Ravi Belani's painkiller philosophy after Ryo focuses on market size. Ryo delivers an extensive case study on conducting 70-80 customer calls, diagnosing pain points, and building a mock-up to validate demand.13:43–17:16 · Guest teaching 2/10 Reflecting on Founder Pivots and Accelerator Benefits Sean connects Ryo's journey to his own founder experience with pivoting, then probes directly into whether Demo Day actually converted into seed capital. Ryo transparently explains that Demo Day did not directly close his seed round.17:17–19:48 · Guest teaching 2/10 Leveraging Accelerator Prestige and Managing Investor Relationships Sean inquires how Alchemist's brand prestige assisted in Japan and asks about CRM practices for US investor follow-ups. Ryo explains the strategic benefit of being the first Japanese Alchemist graduate.2:19–5:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Autify and Deciding to Join an Accelerator Sean asks exploratory questions regarding Ryo's application timeline to accelerators. Ryo explains the realities of repeated rejections and dismisses Sean's theory about accelerators testing founder resilience.5:41–8:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Entering Alchemist Accelerator and the Demo Day Ultimatum Sean asks about the logistics and initial shock of joining Alchemist. Ryo details the advisor ultimatum requiring paying customers to earn a Demo Day spot.8:15–13:43 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Ravi Belani's Core Rules: Painkillers and Market Size Sean steers Ryo to elaborate on Ravi Belani's painkiller philosophy after Ryo focuses on market size. Ryo delivers an extensive case study on conducting 70-80 customer calls, diagnosing pain points, and building a mock-up to validate demand.13:43–17:16 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Reflecting on Founder Pivots and Accelerator Benefits Sean connects Ryo's journey to his own founder experience with pivoting, then probes directly into whether Demo Day actually converted into seed capital. Ryo transparently explains that Demo Day did not directly close his seed round.17:17–19:48 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Leveraging Accelerator Prestige and Managing Investor Relationships Sean inquires how Alchemist's brand prestige assisted in Japan and asks about CRM practices for US investor follow-ups. Ryo explains the strategic benefit of being the first Japanese Alchemist graduate.2:19–5:41 · Sean pushing back 1/10 Introducing Autify and Deciding to Join an Accelerator Sean asks exploratory questions regarding Ryo's application timeline to accelerators. Ryo explains the realities of repeated rejections and dismisses Sean's theory about accelerators testing founder resilience.5:41–8:08 · Sean pushing back 1/10 Entering Alchemist Accelerator and the Demo Day Ultimatum Sean asks about the logistics and initial shock of joining Alchemist. Ryo details the advisor ultimatum requiring paying customers to earn a Demo Day spot.8:15–13:43 · Sean pushing back 2/10 Ravi Belani's Core Rules: Painkillers and Market Size Sean steers Ryo to elaborate on Ravi Belani's painkiller philosophy after Ryo focuses on market size. Ryo delivers an extensive case study on conducting 70-80 customer calls, diagnosing pain points, and building a mock-up to validate demand.13:43–17:16 · Sean pushing back 2/10 Reflecting on Founder Pivots and Accelerator Benefits Sean connects Ryo's journey to his own founder experience with pivoting, then probes directly into whether Demo Day actually converted into seed capital. Ryo transparently explains that Demo Day did not directly close his seed round.17:17–19:48 · Sean pushing back 1/10 Leveraging Accelerator Prestige and Managing Investor Relationships Sean inquires how Alchemist's brand prestige assisted in Japan and asks about CRM practices for US investor follow-ups. Ryo explains the strategic benefit of being the first Japanese Alchemist graduate.

speaking balance: gold is Sean, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Sean 84.7% · guest 15.3%0:00 · Sean 84.7% · guest 15.3%3:00 · Sean 34.1% · guest 65.9%3:00 · Sean 34.1% · guest 65.9%6:00 · Sean 28.5% · guest 71.5%6:00 · Sean 28.5% · guest 71.5%9:00 · Sean 13.5% · guest 86.5%9:00 · Sean 13.5% · guest 86.5%12:00 · Sean 29.9% · guest 70.1%12:00 · Sean 29.9% · guest 70.1%15:00 · Sean 22.1% · guest 77.9%15:00 · Sean 22.1% · guest 77.9%18:00 · Sean 55.8% · guest 44.2%18:00 · Sean 55.8% · guest 44.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:15 Reframing accelerator rejection motives

Ryo politely rejects Sean's premise that accelerators reject founders repeatedly on purpose to test resilience, noting it simply comes down to lack of traction.

 Hardest push from Sean ▶ 9:37 Steering back to burning pain points

Sean explicitly calls out that Ryo only addressed the market size rule, pressing him to go deeper into the customer pain point aspect.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:45 Masterclass on B2B customer discovery pivot

Ryo explains how interviewing 70-80 prospects with zero sales led to cataloging pain points in a spreadsheet and discovering the real problems: automation hiring and maintenance.

 Sean holds their own ▶ 13:43 Relating startup pivot experience

Sean brings his own founder background into the discussion, validating Ryo's narrative by noting how his own company evolved radically before launching.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicSean as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementSean pushing backWhy
Introducing Autify and Deciding to Join an Accelerator 3211 Sean asks exploratory questions regarding Ryo's application timeline to accelerators. Ryo explains the realities of repeated rejections and dismisses Sean's theory about accelerators testing founder resilience.
Entering Alchemist Accelerator and the Demo Day Ultimatum 2311 Sean asks about the logistics and initial shock of joining Alchemist. Ryo details the advisor ultimatum requiring paying customers to earn a Demo Day spot.
Ravi Belani's Core Rules: Painkillers and Market Size 3402 Sean steers Ryo to elaborate on Ravi Belani's painkiller philosophy after Ryo focuses on market size. Ryo delivers an extensive case study on conducting 70-80 customer calls, diagnosing pain points, and building a mock-up to validate demand.
Reflecting on Founder Pivots and Accelerator Benefits 3202 Sean connects Ryo's journey to his own founder experience with pivoting, then probes directly into whether Demo Day actually converted into seed capital. Ryo transparently explains that Demo Day did not directly close his seed round.
Leveraging Accelerator Prestige and Managing Investor Relationships 3201 Sean inquires how Alchemist's brand prestige assisted in Japan and asks about CRM practices for US investor follow-ups. Ryo explains the strategic benefit of being the first Japanese Alchemist graduate.

Statements from this episode (9)

Opinion
Joining an accelerator is critical for scaling globally outside Silicon Valley
“I thought that joining accelerator would definitely be one of the important things to make the other successful startup that scales globally.”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 3:58
Insight
Founders should reapply to Y Combinator even after seven rejections
“I talk to a lot of, like, YC alumni, and then they say, like, you know, they got rejected many times. They get accepted, like, after three times or four times, even, like, seven times or something. You should apply many times.”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 5:02
Opinion
Accelerators reject startups for lack of traction, not to test resilience
“I don't think they would test the resilience of the founder. You could be accepted without any product, without any client, so on. If you don't have any traction, you would be rejected. So that would be the reason, like, you know, too early.”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 5:27
Insight
Early-stage B2B products without paying customers are effectively worthless
“Even in the early days, like, if we don't have any customers, like, if we don't have anyone who is paying for your technology, that would kind of tell you that, you know, your technology, your product is worthless.”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 7:22
Disclosure
Autify entered Alchemist Accelerator without a live product after struggling
“We didn't have any live product yet. Then, like, we've been struggling for, like, a past one and a half year, almost two years.”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 7:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Autify spoke to 70 to 80 customers in three months without sales
“So we've been like talking to 70 to 80 customers already in the first three months, but we couldn't sell anything.”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 11:08
Insight
Prospects saying 'let me know once built' signals no burning need
“Before that, like, hitting the burning news, they would say, like, oh, it looks It's cool. Like, let me know once you build it. So like you would get this kind of reaction many times, but like that is kind of signal that like you haven't identified any of burn…”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 13:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Autify failed to raise any capital from Alchemist Demo Day investors
“Turned out, like, you know, we couldn't find any, like, good fit from the Demo Day, but we could have many opportunities to talk to a lot of variety of investors, so, yeah, a lot of learnings, although we couldn't raise any money from those investors from Demo…”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 16:52
Assertion Supported
Chikazawa: Autify was first Japanese startup to graduate Alchemist Accelerator
“We already actually the first Japanese company graduated from the Alchemist Accelerator, so that helped us a lot.”
Ryo Chikazawa Aug 4, 2021 ▶ 18:07
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