The Exchanges

Q Sure. And like life, walk me through kind of the acquisition channels you use. So between 2015 up to 20 18, I mean, how are you gaining freelance customers? What were some growth hacks maybe you doubled down on?

A Yeah. So, uh, very happy word of mouth, which is, was driven by content. But when we say content, not just like blog posts and whatnot and SEO, but really what we did was we always try to launch something we call, um, uh, like a content stunt within every, basically like every six weeks. And that basically means something that is talk worthy enough for us to either get some PR, to have some, you know, viral effect value on something that we could potentially post to like a product hunt and so on. And so we did, for example, we did a study called Slash Workers, which was basically a study on, um, you know, people having basically multiple professions and so on. We did a study on, um, remote working called Anywhere Workers, which was done together with Remote Year. And so also tapping a partner into that, you know, kind of amplifies the audience you have You know, once you lost these things, we've done things like, um, uh, Like a legal service, like so to say, legal service called, uh, called Williams and Harris, which basically helps you send demand letters to clients that haven't paid you. Um, and it was actually like an extension that was built into the product of Enco, and it's even exists still today. And, you know, we even charge for these letters being sent.

AI assessment note: “we always try to launch something we call, um, like a content stunt”

Q Okay, and where was your head when you launched in 2015? I mean, were you just leaving San Francisco at this point, or like, why jump into the tool in the first place?

A Yeah, so I joined this, um, venture firm called Prehype in New York, and, um, the way the partnership model there is also that every partner is technically an entity. So, um, you basically get parts of everything you're involved in, And therefore technically I turned freelance just from like a legal structure perspective. And so what happened that to me was that, Hey, when you turn freelance tomorrow, like, where do you go? Right. There's not like a place where I go sign up and be freelance. It didn't really exist. And so how friends were running their business was basically this like patchwork workflows, right? I have my Dropbox over here, my spreadsheet over there. I use like my small business accounting software, like a FreshBooks or QuickBooks or something. And that's kind of how they created their workflow a little bit, um, you know, and like kind of using like Zapier to stitch everything together in a way. And, um, and that's kind of what, like the, what, what was kind of like this, this, this like an epiphany moment of, you know, why is there not this place where I can just sign up and be freelance and also just a tool that's specifically designed for the workflow of freelancers. Um, and it's really just kind of starting with like solving the issue for, for myself or ourselves. Like I did it together with my co-founder Martin, who had like the same issue at the time.

AI assessment note: “it's really just kind of starting with like solving the issue for, for myself”

Q Cool. Well, okay. So, so by the way, I paid about three invoices this morning from freelancers that I work with and used and they send their invoices via ENCO. So you have a, you have a guy that understands the product and use the product. So, so Walk me through, is this what the product always looked like, or was it different pre-Fiverr?

A Um, I mean, we've definitely done a ton of redesign since we joined Fiverr, but in general, that's like, the way you've seen the product now kind of has been also before we got acquired by Fiverr. So the way we look at the product really is that, um, is the category of freelancing software, the way we define it, right? So if you're a freelancer, you kind of have a very specific workflow of how you work, right? And And that often is, you know, based off projects. And if you work based off a project, you, for example, your proposal first and a freelance contract that kind of then dives into your task management and client management, we then dives into your invoices and payments and so on. And so that is basically, that structure is something that we had built out over the span of like two years. Um, and then, you know, uh, yeah, and then basically got acquired by Fiverr, like, uh, in year three or like roughly within year three.

AI assessment note: “the way you've seen the product now kind of has been also before we got acquired”

Q Did all employees have some, have some kind of equity? Do they all have options or no?

A Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah. And so for us, it was really the sense of, uh, like, we basically really communicated to the team that it's happening when it was really clear that it's happening. They obviously knew that we had talks and whatnot, because, you know, it was a small team at the time, and specifically the ones that were in New York were definitely aware that we had these talks, right? And we had to flow to, we had to fly to Tel Aviv, we're a five-hour space and whatnot. And so people were aware, but I think it's also very important for you as a founder to make sure to not, you know, make people immediately start thinking of, okay, You know, what would it be if this exit would happen? You know, what that means for me, et cetera, et cetera. And suddenly these questions pop up, these distractions pop up, et cetera, that you don't really want to push on your team yet, because obviously that process takes multiple months. There, you know, a lot can still go wrong, even in the last days of negotiation, et cetera, et cetera. And so I think it's also important to like keep your team, you know, focused on the work and focused on, uh, uh, you know, their job basically, and not to have them be distracted by The potential outcome that might come.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah.”

Q Yeah. Now, now it's easy to do that if you had trouble scaling revenue, right? You're just shutting down a stream that wasn't working anyway. It's different if you were doing twenty million bucks in ARR and you shut it off. So help me understand what you actually shut off.

A Uh, so obviously I can't share any specific numbers on that, but, um, uh, but in general, obviously like we were in the market for like a year, year and a half with the product from there. Um, and then like, as we joined Fiverr and made the product free, it was less about, hey, we're shutting off this like revenue stream and more about a strategic play for Fiverr, right? So, and if you look at the market right now, it's very much about land grab. And so, Also by making the product free, it was, it's also just a strategic decision for us to be able to just grab more from the market, right? Also focus more on the product and, you know, kind of like make the product even more awesome than it, you know, was before. And, um, uh, and then I have that focus point, right? And I think that was like the, the, the main decision there. And the other drivers really is that if you look at the freelance market in general, is it like Still happens outside of online marketplaces. And so the Fiverr and the Upwork and so are really competing within these existing six percent right now. And obviously that's growing rapidly, but what Enco is serving is basically all the work that you're doing outside of these online marketplaces. And that's obviously the interesting thing because we are like the first piece of software that these freelancers use to basically take all that work that they basically h…

AI assessment note: “obviously I can't share any specific numbers on that, but”

Q Did you push back though? I mean, did your team push back and go, wait, they're killing our revenue. We spent so much energy getting 4000 customers.

A Hey, if you, like, if you build a product, I think one big thing out of this is that you want to reach scale, right? And I think scale is something that's from a selfish perspective as an, like, as a, like, as an entrepreneur is that you want to see You know, basically, in theory, millions of people use your product, right? Like, that is, I think, something that really makes you excited, right? And obviously, you want to build a business, and obviously, you want to grow that, and whatnot, and, you know, charging can be a growth driver, just from the perspective of being able to reinvest it, and so on. But obviously, like, one big thing is you want to, like, you want to reach certain scale, you want to, like, reach a certain relevancy for people, right? And I think that is, that is, I think something that specifically, I think also for the team, you know, was very exciting in terms of joining Fiverr. And then also, and then also like one big thing of terms of how we, like of how we grew. So one were these, these like content stunts that we've done. And the other thing we really like distribution partnerships. And so one big thing of also what we started talking to Fiverr was from a perspective of distribution partnerships. And so back in the day, for example, we did something with, um, Envato, um, It's like one of the, uh, like, uh, biggest, like creative asset marketplaces by b…

AI assessment note: “I think something that specifically, I think also for the team, you know, was very exciting”