The Exchanges

Q Okay. And what do they get? So, so we haven't actually talked about what Lemlis does. What does Lemlis do? What are they paying for?

A So Lemlist basically allows you to automate your multi-channel outreach strategy so you can start sending emails, sending like messages on LinkedIn, uh, create tasks, you know, for your sales team so they can do calls as well. That's like the, the, the latest version of Lemlist, which is called Lemlist, where we're basically like, uh, we have onboarded about like 200 companies on that, uh, on that latest version. Uh, and it's not live for everyone yet. Uh, because initially, as you know, we were just, uh, focusing on cold emails and now we're expanding towards like the entire, like sales automation. Cause as you can guess, we're going a bit of market on the, on the customers. Uh, so yeah.

AI assessment note: “Lemlist basically allows you to automate your multi-channel outreach strategy”

Q Did you uncover any strategy that was particularly effective in converting the Absimo one-timers to true recurring plans? A lot of people that go through Absimo, they The ones that love it are the ones that convert them to recurring well. The ones that hate it are the ones that don't end up converting them well.

A Yeah. I think it's very tough to convert a lifetime deal user into a paying customer. The only way to do that would be like to frustrate most of them and say, like, try to upsell them on specific, on specific feature. For us, we're really like, uh, very honest in what we served when we decided to make that lifetime deal. So we said, You're going to get all the upgrades because that's why, you know, we decided like we launched with you guys who helped us have the foundation of our community and we're okay with that. Uh, we could be like very sneaky and try to say like, yeah, if you want to get that type of feature, you have to become like a paying customers. And I'm sure we could convert some of them, but I wouldn't feel like fair. So I prefer having them. I really like strong advocate advocates and Just keep focusing on getting, like, more people, because the market is, like, so huge, we don't really need to, to go after those customers, I think.

AI assessment note: “I think it's very tough to convert a lifetime deal user into a paying customer.”

Q Hey guys, we have an extra hundred grand in the bank. Now there's like 700 grand sitting in the bank. That's obviously not a good use of cash to let it just sit there outside of making you feel comfortable, which there is value to that. But what do you do with it? Do you give it out as dividends? Do you reinvest it? What do you do with it?

A Yeah. So we, we take, uh, we take the cash for ourselves and, uh, and make like, uh, so first thing is, uh, we try to make ourselves very comfortable because, Being in comfort with your company, I think it's quite nice because you make, like, smarter decisions. Second is give ourselves dividends and do, like, some of our personal investments, so buying houses, etc. And then, obviously, it's, uh, it's a big part right now, especially with the new strategy, and it's to invest in hiring more people. So that's why, you know, we go, like, from 12 to, like, 19 in the next months. It's basically to start growing, hiring, And, uh, building, like, better processes to grow, to keep the same growth rate, essentially.

AI assessment note: “Second is give ourselves dividends and do, like, some of our personal investments”

Q Did you uncover any strategy that was particularly effective and converting the absolute one timers to work true recurring plans? A lot of people that go through AppSumo, they, The ones that love it are the ones that convert them to recurring well. The ones that hate it are the ones that don't end up converting them well.

A Yeah, I think it's very tough to convert a lifetime deal user into a paying customer. The only way to do that would be like to frustrate most of them and say, like, try to upsell them on specific, on specific feature. For us, we're really like, uh, very honest in what we served when we decided to make that lifetime deal. So we said, You're going to get all the upgrades because that's why, you know, we decided like we launched with you guys who helped us have the foundation of our community and we're okay with that. Uh, we could be like very sneaky and try to say like, yeah, if you want to get that type of feature, you have to become like a paying customers. And I'm sure we could convert some of them, but I wouldn't feel like fair. So I prefer having them. I really like strong advocate advocates and Just keep focusing on getting, like, more people, because the market is, like, so huge, we don't really need to, to go after those customers, I think.

AI assessment note: “I think it's very tough to convert a lifetime deal user into a paying customer.”

Q Hey guys, we have an extra hundred grand in the bank. Now there's like 700 grand sitting in the bank. That's obviously not a good use of cash to let it just sit there outside of making you feel comfortable, which there is value to that. But what do you do with it? Do you give it out as dividends? Do you reinvest it? What do you do with it?

A Yeah. So we, we take, uh, we take the cash for ourself and, uh, and make like, uh, so first thing is, uh, we try to make ourselves very comfortable because, uh, as you said, I think like being in the, uh, Being in comfort with your company, I think it's quite nice because you make like smarter decision. Uh, second is give ourselves dividends and do like some of our personal investments. So buying houses, et cetera. Uh, and then obviously it's, uh, it's a big part right now, especially with the new strategy and it's to invest in hiring more people. So that's why, you know, we go like from 12 to like 19 in, uh, in the next months is basically to start growing, hiring, And, uh, building like better processes to grow, to keep the same growth rate essentially.

AI assessment note: “second is give ourselves dividends and do like some of our personal investments”

Q How do you incentivize that? It's not easy to get these incentive structures, right?

A Yeah, so we do that per quarter. So we have, like, we do that exactly the same as the way, like, we incentivize, like, sales teams. So it's, for example, because I know a lot of people, you know, they're trying to put bonuses on number of qualified leads, marketing qualified leads, sales qualified leads. I think it's too complicated, and I think people tend to always optimize things based on, so for example, if I tell you, you need to reject that amount of marketing qualified leads. What you're going to try to do is book, let's say, as many meetings you can for your sales team. However, the quality of the lead is not going to be that great. However, if everyone is focused on growing the MRR, and then we set up like the MRR goal at the beginning of each quarter, now everyone is focused on one thing, which is revenue, and revenue for us equals profit. So it's like everyone goes to the same direction, and I think it's like, uh, It's a better way to incentivize. So we have, like, different levels, and each level you reach will get a bonus, and then you have, like, higher levels and higher bonuses.

AI assessment note: “we set up like the MRR goal at the beginning of each quarter”

Q How do you incentivize that? It's not easy to get these incentive structures, right?

A Yeah, so we do that per quarter. So we have, like, we do that exactly the same as way, like, we incentivize, like, sales teams. So it's, for example, because I know a lot of people, you know, they're trying to put bonuses on number of qualified leads, marketing qualified leads, sales qualified I think it's too complicated, and I think people tend to always optimize things based on, so for example, if I tell you, you need to reject that amount of marketing qualified leads. What you're going to try to do is book, let's say, as many meetings you can for your sales team. However, the quality of the lead is not going to be that great. However, if everyone is focused on growing the MRR, and then we set up like the MRR goal at the beginning of each quarter, now everyone is focused on one thing, which is revenue, and revenue for us equals profit. So it's like everyone goes to the same direction, and I think it's like, uh, It's a better way to incentivize. So we have, like, different levels, and each level you reach will get a bonus, and then you have, like, higher levels and higher bonuses.

AI assessment note: “we set up like the MRR goal at the beginning of each quarter”

Q Can you correlate your belief that the current knowledge out there about sales is not accurate With real product decisions you made in the past four months at Lemless. Can you talk about one of them?

A Yeah, definitely. So if, for example, if you look like at, uh, at most companies, what they're saying at their tagline is like, put yourselves on autopilots. First of all, like that's, that's what they focused on. We focused on the relationship and an implementation was our key differentiator. So from day one, we implemented dynamic photos and videos that you could implement straight into your emails just to make the email more human. And we started, you know, from the, from the ground up in the product, building our product around that. Helping people, you know, like, uh, build warmer relationship, giving them tips within the product. Right now, we're also gonna start, like, putting some gamification within the task people have to do, and because I think, like, sales is amazing for gamification, because the, the better you do actions and spend time on researching your prospect, the higher your booking rate is gonna be, and hence, your bonus will be higher as well. So I think it's, like, literally the best place to To have fun while doing something, you know, like, uh, and care about people. And, uh, and that's basically all the things we were implementing. So small things within the platforms that makes it more human, like a little comments whenever you're doing specific actions, et cetera, et cetera. Just so, so people feel more comfortable and, uh, happier in their job also.

AI assessment note: “we implemented dynamic photos and videos that you could implement straight into your emails”

Q So someone listening right now, there's a lot of private folks that listen, came and offered seven million all cash upfront. So it was a clean deal, no earn out. I mean, would you have to think seriously about that with your co-founders?

A Uh, no. No, no, it's, uh, it's, it's just because, like, our strategy is, uh, is really, like, long-term, and, uh, there is so many things that needs to be changed in the, especially in the sales automation space, where I, I, I really feel like, um, a lot of people have said so much bullshit about the entire, you know, like, uh, sales field overall. It's, um, I think there is a lot of wrong things, you know, like, a lot of people think that, um, To be a good salesman, you need to be like a man. You need to be strong. You need to play sports, et cetera, et cetera. But actually, when you look at, you know, like all the studies, you see that best salespeople are introvert. Best salespeople are usually women. And you are like, it's for me, it's like just a fake image of what sales is about. Lots of people think that sales, you know, it's like ABC always be closing. Actually it's the opposite. You know, you should always be helping people. Try to provide as much value as possible, et cetera. And I think like, um, we have so many, like so much more to do in that space that we want to stay and grow the company for at least like three to five years. And later on, when I would feel like we've done a great job and things are changing, maybe, you know, I'll consider like an exit.

AI assessment note: “Uh, no. No, no, it's, uh, it's, it's just because, like, our strategy is”

Q So someone listening right now, there's a lot of private folks that listen, came and offered seven million all cash upfront. So it was a clean deal, no burnout. I mean, would you have to think seriously about that with your co-founders?

A Uh, no. No, no, it's, uh, it's, it's just because, like, our strategy is, uh, is really, like, long-term, and, uh, there is so many things that needs to be changed in the, especially in the sales automation space, where I, I, I really feel like, um, a lot of people have said so much bullshit about the entire, you know, like, uh, sales field overall. It's, um, I think there's a lot of wrong things, you know, like, a lot of people think that, um, To be a good salesman, you need to be like a man. You need to be strong. You need to play sports, et cetera, et cetera. But actually, when you look at, you know, like all the studies, you see that best salespeople are introvert. Best salespeople are usually women. And you are like, it's for me, it's like just a fake image of what sales is about. Lots of people think that sales, you know, it's like ABC always be closing. Actually it's the opposite. You know, you should always be helping people. Try to provide as much value as possible, et cetera. And I think like, um, we have so many, like so much more to do in that space that we want to stay and grow the company for at least like three to five years. And later on, when I would feel like we've done a great job and things are changing, maybe, you know, I'll consider like an exit.

AI assessment note: “no. No, no, it's, uh, it's, it's just because, like, our strategy is, uh, is really, like, long-term”

Q Can you correlate your belief that the current knowledge out there about sales is not accurate With real product decisions you made in the past four months at Lemless. Can you talk about one of them?

A Yeah, definitely. So if, for example, if you look like at, uh, at most companies, what they're saying at their tagline is like, put yourselves on autopilots. First of all, like that's, that's what they focused on. We focused on the relationship and an implementation was our key differentiator. So from day one, we implemented dynamic photos and videos that you could implement. Email more human. And we started, you know, from the, from the ground up in the product, building our product around that. Helping people, you know, like, uh, build warmer relationship, giving them tips within the product. Right now, we're also gonna start, like, putting some gamification within the task people have to do, and because I think, like, sales is amazing for gamification, because the, the better you do actions and spend time on researching your prospect, the higher your booking rate is gonna be, and hence, your bonus will be higher as well. So I think it's, like, literally the best place to To have fun while doing something, you know, like, uh, and care about people. And, uh, and that's basically all the things we were implementing. So small things within the platforms that makes it more human, like a little comments whenever you're doing specific actions, et cetera, et cetera, just so, so people feel more comfortable and, uh, happier in their job also.

AI assessment note: “We focused on the relationship and an implementation was our key differentiator.”

Q Are customers sticking once they start paying? What's your revenue turn look like on a gross basis?

A So, like, for me, I don't think it's a question we can answer, like, straight to the point, just because, like, it's, um, I prefer answering in terms of persona and churn. So, basically, sales team that are with more than sales people, more than five sales people, so from five to, let's say, 30 or 50, that's kind of our sweet spot, and those people are not churning. Like, we have negative, uh, net MR churn, so something around, like, minus five Minus six percent. Uh, however, if you look at also a big chunk of our business, which are, uh, smaller, um, smaller, like, uh, business. So I would say like startup, uh, less than 10 people, et cetera. The churn is around like maybe 10%, but the net MRR churn is basically around like maybe three to four percent because we see those people, for example, as I said, they're going to say, hey guys, we love the products. Uh, we're churning because it's August. But no worries. We're coming back in September and they come back in September, you know, and sometimes it's like, oh yeah, we finished our campaigns. We're going to come back in one or two months and you see them come back. So every time I look at the, so we have like a questionnaire when someone turns and every time I see like someone leaving, it's usually because they're going to come back and they're just short on cash or just, you know, like watching their spendings. But for the c…

AI assessment note: “The churn is around like maybe 10%, but the net MRR churn is basically around like maybe three to four percent”

Q Are customers sticking once they start paying? What's your revenue term look like on a gross basis?

A So like, for me, I don't think it's a question we can answer like straight Straight to the point just because like it's, um, I prefer answering in terms of persona and churn. So basically sales team that are with more than sales people, more than five sales people. So from five to let's say, 30 or 50, that's kind of our sweet spot. And those people are not churning. Like we have negative, uh, net MR churn. So something around like minus five, minus six percent. Uh, however, if you look at also a big chunk of our business, which are Uh, smaller, um, smaller, like, uh, business. So I would say like startup, uh, less than 10 people, et cetera. The churn is around like maybe 10%, but the net MRR churn is basically around like maybe three to four percent, because we see those people, for example, as I said, they're gonna say, hey guys, we love the products, uh, we're churning because it's August, but no worries, we're coming back in September, and they come back in September, you know. And sometimes it's like, oh yeah, we finished our campaigns. We're going to come back in one or two months and you see them come back. So every time I look at the, so we have like a questionnaire when someone turns and every time I see like someone leaving, it's usually because they're going to come back and they're just short on cash or just, you know, like watching their spendings. But for the custo…

AI assessment note: “we have negative, uh, net MR churn. So something around like minus five”

Q Can you walk us through this a bit more? So June, uh, end of the second quarter, you guys, it sounds like broke that two million run rate right around there. That's an easy number to talk to. So your team meeting at the end of Q two when you're setting goals for Q three, what is the new MRR target for Q three, Q four?

A Yeah. So I, our goal essentially was to do like, uh, five X from, um, December, 2019 up to like, uh, December, 20 20. So the, the monthly goal is, I think it's around like, uh, 14 to 60%. Uh, each month, month over month growth rate. So I think it's 16% to reach like five X more or less. Uh, and basically like, uh, this is the goal for the year. So we don't really adapt anything. Uh, so the growth, for example, if it's faster, uh, and then we, we cut it per quarter. So for example, if the growth was like faster, uh, in, uh, let's say, I don't know, like, uh, April and March or like in Q two, if the growth is faster than 16%, Then, you know, like the, the goal at the end of, uh, of Q three, it would still be the same as I decided at the beginning of the year.

AI assessment note: “our goal essentially was to do like, uh, five X”

Q What's like the number one thing that you get asked about that you, you have to just continue to decline over and over again?

A Um, I guess, like, I keep helping. I don't do that to all of, for all of our customers, but I keep helping people if they are in need, you know, for advice on how to set up, you know, their outbound pipeline. So that's something where I'm doing, like, kind of, like, free consulting sessions, uh, depending on, on some customers where I could just, like, spend maybe, like, uh, either 20 minutes recording a video for a customer, like, going through his, uh, cold email templates, see how things are set up, All these types of things, and always trying to help, but I think it's also part of the DNA of the team, so now I'm not the only one doing this, and it's easier to scale, I would say.

AI assessment note: “I keep helping people if they are in need, you know, for advice”

Q Okay, 26. We're actually about the same age. So what do you guys want to do with the company? I mean, is this, is this the, is this the create a quick win, make, make some money, and then go for the billion-dollar home run, or you think this can be a really big billion-dollar business?

A It's, it's very difficult. Like we're very early. Like, uh, I would say we want to get the comp to grow the company as big as possible. Uh, we're not really looking for fundings, because, uh, that's not really our vision, and we like, uh, the way bootstrapping company works, because I believe we really focus on users, then, you know, we find, like, really market fit, and a channel of acquisition that works, and that is cheap, and then, like, we can grow steady, but, uh, you know, like, uh, really, and, um, with no kind of, uh, VC pressure and all, and so on, and, um, yeah, basically, like, The goal is really, like, to be different from what every other cold email is doing. Like, people were saying for a long time, like, don't say images in your cold email, that's not good, that's not professional, that's not, it's not true, you know. Like, we've experienced it, it's working. As long as you be different, and you get the attention of your user, you get more replies. That's a fact, and everyone who's using it loves it, so it's, uh, It speaks by itself, basically.

AI assessment note: “we want to get the comp to grow the company as big as possible”