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Jan 27, 2016 · 20m · top-founders

How To Mathematically Figure Out Amazon Sales Potential With Michael Devlin

Michael Devlin · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews entrepreneur Michael Devlin to explore how Profits Engine uses proprietary Amazon sales data algorithms to forecast product demand and launch e-commerce businesses. Devlin breaks down his hybrid monetization model, detailing how educational webinars and LinkedIn outreach drive both upfront course revenue and recurring software subscriptions.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 47.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 2.2 Nathan pushing back 5.0
05100:0010:0020:001:00–3:07 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Michael Devlin and the Profits Engine Concept Nathan introduces Michael and immediately asks for clarification when Devlin speaks in vague terms about e-commerce products. Latka brings up past guest Scott Voelker and Amazon BSR strategies to frame the conversation around Amazon data mechanics.3:07–5:34 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Amazon Data Extraction and Algorithm Accuracy Nathan skeptically questions how Devlin bypasses Amazon's guarded data barriers and presses him on when the algorithm has failed. Devlin educates Latka on secret API key integration and calculates accuracy tolerances, with Nathan converting the raw error range into an exact percentage.5:35–9:46 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 The 104-Student Webinar Launch and LinkedIn Funnel Strategy Nathan drills into the mechanics of Devlin's webinar launch and asks pointed questions about the legality and ethics of exporting LinkedIn connections into an email marketing list. Devlin explains the funnel economics and conversion numbers politely.9:47–13:00 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Membership Economics: Course vs. Recurring Subscription Nathan rigorously deconstructs Devlin's revenue claims, distinguishing between one-time course sales and actual SaaS recurring revenue. He directly calls out that Profits Engine is functioning as an info-product membership community rather than a pure software company.13:00–15:56 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Software Valuation vs. Educational Course Strategy Debate Nathan bluntly challenges Devlin on why he is 'dicking around' with low-multiple membership courses instead of building a defensible software business with high valuation multiples. Devlin pushes back, arguing that training content serves as an effective customer acquisition tool for software utility.15:58–19:52 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor Break and Podcast Promo The episode wraps up through a sponsor plug and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Devlin reflects on prioritizing relationships over aggressive power struggles, which Nathan acknowledges before closing out.1:00–3:07 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Michael Devlin and the Profits Engine Concept Nathan introduces Michael and immediately asks for clarification when Devlin speaks in vague terms about e-commerce products. Latka brings up past guest Scott Voelker and Amazon BSR strategies to frame the conversation around Amazon data mechanics.3:07–5:34 · Guest teaching 5/10 Amazon Data Extraction and Algorithm Accuracy Nathan skeptically questions how Devlin bypasses Amazon's guarded data barriers and presses him on when the algorithm has failed. Devlin educates Latka on secret API key integration and calculates accuracy tolerances, with Nathan converting the raw error range into an exact percentage.5:35–9:46 · Guest teaching 4/10 The 104-Student Webinar Launch and LinkedIn Funnel Strategy Nathan drills into the mechanics of Devlin's webinar launch and asks pointed questions about the legality and ethics of exporting LinkedIn connections into an email marketing list. Devlin explains the funnel economics and conversion numbers politely.9:47–13:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Membership Economics: Course vs. Recurring Subscription Nathan rigorously deconstructs Devlin's revenue claims, distinguishing between one-time course sales and actual SaaS recurring revenue. He directly calls out that Profits Engine is functioning as an info-product membership community rather than a pure software company.13:00–15:56 · Guest teaching 4/10 Software Valuation vs. Educational Course Strategy Debate Nathan bluntly challenges Devlin on why he is 'dicking around' with low-multiple membership courses instead of building a defensible software business with high valuation multiples. Devlin pushes back, arguing that training content serves as an effective customer acquisition tool for software utility.15:58–19:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor Break and Podcast Promo The episode wraps up through a sponsor plug and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Devlin reflects on prioritizing relationships over aggressive power struggles, which Nathan acknowledges before closing out.1:00–3:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Michael Devlin and the Profits Engine Concept Nathan introduces Michael and immediately asks for clarification when Devlin speaks in vague terms about e-commerce products. Latka brings up past guest Scott Voelker and Amazon BSR strategies to frame the conversation around Amazon data mechanics.3:07–5:34 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Amazon Data Extraction and Algorithm Accuracy Nathan skeptically questions how Devlin bypasses Amazon's guarded data barriers and presses him on when the algorithm has failed. Devlin educates Latka on secret API key integration and calculates accuracy tolerances, with Nathan converting the raw error range into an exact percentage.5:35–9:46 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The 104-Student Webinar Launch and LinkedIn Funnel Strategy Nathan drills into the mechanics of Devlin's webinar launch and asks pointed questions about the legality and ethics of exporting LinkedIn connections into an email marketing list. Devlin explains the funnel economics and conversion numbers politely.9:47–13:00 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Membership Economics: Course vs. Recurring Subscription Nathan rigorously deconstructs Devlin's revenue claims, distinguishing between one-time course sales and actual SaaS recurring revenue. He directly calls out that Profits Engine is functioning as an info-product membership community rather than a pure software company.13:00–15:56 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Software Valuation vs. Educational Course Strategy Debate Nathan bluntly challenges Devlin on why he is 'dicking around' with low-multiple membership courses instead of building a defensible software business with high valuation multiples. Devlin pushes back, arguing that training content serves as an effective customer acquisition tool for software utility.15:58–19:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor Break and Podcast Promo The episode wraps up through a sponsor plug and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Devlin reflects on prioritizing relationships over aggressive power struggles, which Nathan acknowledges before closing out.1:00–3:07 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Michael Devlin and the Profits Engine Concept Nathan introduces Michael and immediately asks for clarification when Devlin speaks in vague terms about e-commerce products. Latka brings up past guest Scott Voelker and Amazon BSR strategies to frame the conversation around Amazon data mechanics.3:07–5:34 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Amazon Data Extraction and Algorithm Accuracy Nathan skeptically questions how Devlin bypasses Amazon's guarded data barriers and presses him on when the algorithm has failed. Devlin educates Latka on secret API key integration and calculates accuracy tolerances, with Nathan converting the raw error range into an exact percentage.5:35–9:46 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 The 104-Student Webinar Launch and LinkedIn Funnel Strategy Nathan drills into the mechanics of Devlin's webinar launch and asks pointed questions about the legality and ethics of exporting LinkedIn connections into an email marketing list. Devlin explains the funnel economics and conversion numbers politely.9:47–13:00 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Membership Economics: Course vs. Recurring Subscription Nathan rigorously deconstructs Devlin's revenue claims, distinguishing between one-time course sales and actual SaaS recurring revenue. He directly calls out that Profits Engine is functioning as an info-product membership community rather than a pure software company.13:00–15:56 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Software Valuation vs. Educational Course Strategy Debate Nathan bluntly challenges Devlin on why he is 'dicking around' with low-multiple membership courses instead of building a defensible software business with high valuation multiples. Devlin pushes back, arguing that training content serves as an effective customer acquisition tool for software utility.15:58–19:52 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Mid-Episode Sponsor Break and Podcast Promo The episode wraps up through a sponsor plug and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Devlin reflects on prioritizing relationships over aggressive power struggles, which Nathan acknowledges before closing out.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 62.2% · guest 37.8%0:00 · Nathan 62.2% · guest 37.8%3:00 · Nathan 28% · guest 72%3:00 · Nathan 28% · guest 72%6:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%6:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%9:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%9:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%12:00 · Nathan 47.4% · guest 52.6%12:00 · Nathan 47.4% · guest 52.6%15:00 · Nathan 58.1% · guest 41.9%15:00 · Nathan 58.1% · guest 41.9%18:00 · Nathan 54.3% · guest 45.7%18:00 · Nathan 54.3% · guest 45.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:13 Devlin defending the hybrid education-and-tools business model

Devlin directly counters Nathan's dismissive characterization of educational memberships, asserting that pairing proprietary tools with training creates an effective, complementary acquisition engine.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:00 Nathan rejecting the membership model in favor of pure SaaS

Nathan aggressively refuses the guest's premise that building an info-course is worthwhile, telling him to stop 'dicking around' with membership sites and build pure software that commands enterprise valuation multiples.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:10 Devlin explaining Amazon Seller Central data pooling

Devlin breaks down how Profits Engine uses users' secret keys to aggregate millions in transactional data across UK and US Amazon marketplaces to generate predictive sales models.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:17 Nathan contrasting webinar dopamine hits with massive enterprise valuations

Nathan demonstrates strategic domain expertise by citing venture investor Tim Draper's 400x return on Skype, warning Devlin that chasing fast webinar revenue prevents founders from building generational enterprise value.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Michael Devlin and the Profits Engine Concept 5313 Nathan introduces Michael and immediately asks for clarification when Devlin speaks in vague terms about e-commerce products. Latka brings up past guest Scott Voelker and Amazon BSR strategies to frame the conversation around Amazon data mechanics.
Amazon Data Extraction and Algorithm Accuracy 6526 Nathan skeptically questions how Devlin bypasses Amazon's guarded data barriers and presses him on when the algorithm has failed. Devlin educates Latka on secret API key integration and calculates accuracy tolerances, with Nathan converting the raw error range into an exact percentage.
The 104-Student Webinar Launch and LinkedIn Funnel Strategy 6424 Nathan drills into the mechanics of Devlin's webinar launch and asks pointed questions about the legality and ethics of exporting LinkedIn connections into an email marketing list. Devlin explains the funnel economics and conversion numbers politely.
Membership Economics: Course vs. Recurring Subscription 7337 Nathan rigorously deconstructs Devlin's revenue claims, distinguishing between one-time course sales and actual SaaS recurring revenue. He directly calls out that Profits Engine is functioning as an info-product membership community rather than a pure software company.
Software Valuation vs. Educational Course Strategy Debate 8448 Nathan bluntly challenges Devlin on why he is 'dicking around' with low-multiple membership courses instead of building a defensible software business with high valuation multiples. Devlin pushes back, arguing that training content serves as an effective customer acquisition tool for software utility.
Mid-Episode Sponsor Break and Podcast Promo 3212 The episode wraps up through a sponsor plug and the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Devlin reflects on prioritizing relationships over aggressive power struggles, which Nathan acknowledges before closing out.

Statements from this episode (6)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Profits Engine has £8.5M UK and $16.5M US in transactional data
“And we've already got around about eight and a half million pounds sterling worth of transactional data points in amazon.co.uk and about 16 and a half million US dollars in data points in amazon.com.”
Michael Devlin Jan 27, 2016 ▶ 3:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devlin scaled a physical product business to seven figures in 24 months
“With my own physical product that I built from zero to seven figures inside 24 months.”
Michael Devlin Jan 27, 2016 ▶ 6:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devlin's launch webinar converted 104 buyers from roughly 540 attendees
“Registered for the webinar. My apologies, about one and a half thousand to 1200. But there was about 540 showed up. And then a 104 subscribers.”
Michael Devlin Jan 27, 2016 ▶ 8:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Devlin's 104 webinar buyers paid $997 each for his course
“No, it was discounted. They paid nine, nine, seven.”
Michael Devlin Jan 27, 2016 ▶ 10:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Profits Engine has 23 annual and two monthly elite subscribers
“We have currently 23 doing annual, and we have we have just two on subscription at the moment, and there's a couple of students in there that are not really quite ready, but will come up just on and around at the end of December.”
Michael Devlin Jan 27, 2016 ▶ 12:21
Insight
Latka argues webinar cash distracts founders from building high-valuation companies
“I feel like a lot of smart business minds get attracted to the dopamine hit, which is refreshing your sales back end after a webinar. I do this too, by the way, and seeing like 10 grand or a hundred grand or a million dollars in sales come in really fast, but …”
Nathan Latka Jan 27, 2016 ▶ 14:19
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