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Jun 22, 2016 · 25m · top-founders

EP 310: You Won't Believe How Many Books This 24 Year Old Has Sold

Jake Ducey · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In episode 310 of The Top podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews 24-year-old author and speaker Jake Ducey, unpacking the business economics of self-publishing versus traditional publishing, speaking monetization, and building a purpose-driven career.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.9 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 1.1 Nathan pushing back 1.8
05100:0010:0020:000:27–4:51 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Weekly Cash Winner Announcement and iTunes Contest Details Nathan introduces Jake and sets the premise of the show, demanding tactical answers rather than hippie philosophy. Jake explains his journey of dropping out of college at 19 and being rejected by traditional publishers before self-publishing.4:51–7:25 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Self-Publishing Economics and Working with a Literary Agent Nathan digs into the revenue and cost breakdown of Jake's first book. Jake shares specific printing costs of 74 cents per copy and advises aspiring authors against paying thousands for predatory vanity publishing packages.7:25–9:48 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Landing Penguin Deal and Publishing 'The Purpose Principles' Nathan presses on how Jake landed Penguin Random House and what kind of advance he secured. Jake reveals he negotiated a $30,000 advance at age 22 backed by his proven self-published sales record and Jack Canfield's mentorship.9:48–13:38 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Fulfillment Philosophy, Traditional Publishing Royalties, and Credibility Nathan questions why Jake would take a traditional publishing deal with a low $1 per book royalty compared to self-publishing. Jake justifies the trade-off by pointing out the brand credibility and avoidance of operational headaches.13:38–15:57 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Monetizing Speaking Engagements and Ryan Holiday PR Strategy Nathan inquires about Jake's actual revenue generation through speaking tours. Jake details his 95 gigs yielding 75% of his annual income and explains paying Ryan Holiday for one-on-one PR strategy coaching.15:57–18:23 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Launching 'Profit from Happiness' and Youth Donation Initiative Jake details his upcoming book Profit from Happiness and his one-for-one donation model providing books to underprivileged youth. Nathan contrasts Jake's social-first mission with his own self-admitted ego-driven business approach.18:23–21:12 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Long-Term Vision, Motion Picture Ambitions, and Social Channels Jake discusses his 10-year vision including international speaking tours and adapting his first book into a motion picture. The conversation transitions smoothly into sponsor messages and social links.21:13–24:08 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jake Ducey Nathan leads the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Jake's speaking fee of $7,500, Oren Klaff's book Pitch Anything, and the importance of patience.0:27–4:51 · Guest teaching 3/10 Weekly Cash Winner Announcement and iTunes Contest Details Nathan introduces Jake and sets the premise of the show, demanding tactical answers rather than hippie philosophy. Jake explains his journey of dropping out of college at 19 and being rejected by traditional publishers before self-publishing.4:51–7:25 · Guest teaching 4/10 Self-Publishing Economics and Working with a Literary Agent Nathan digs into the revenue and cost breakdown of Jake's first book. Jake shares specific printing costs of 74 cents per copy and advises aspiring authors against paying thousands for predatory vanity publishing packages.7:25–9:48 · Guest teaching 4/10 Landing Penguin Deal and Publishing 'The Purpose Principles' Nathan presses on how Jake landed Penguin Random House and what kind of advance he secured. Jake reveals he negotiated a $30,000 advance at age 22 backed by his proven self-published sales record and Jack Canfield's mentorship.9:48–13:38 · Guest teaching 3/10 Fulfillment Philosophy, Traditional Publishing Royalties, and Credibility Nathan questions why Jake would take a traditional publishing deal with a low $1 per book royalty compared to self-publishing. Jake justifies the trade-off by pointing out the brand credibility and avoidance of operational headaches.13:38–15:57 · Guest teaching 3/10 Monetizing Speaking Engagements and Ryan Holiday PR Strategy Nathan inquires about Jake's actual revenue generation through speaking tours. Jake details his 95 gigs yielding 75% of his annual income and explains paying Ryan Holiday for one-on-one PR strategy coaching.15:57–18:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 Launching 'Profit from Happiness' and Youth Donation Initiative Jake details his upcoming book Profit from Happiness and his one-for-one donation model providing books to underprivileged youth. Nathan contrasts Jake's social-first mission with his own self-admitted ego-driven business approach.18:23–21:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Long-Term Vision, Motion Picture Ambitions, and Social Channels Jake discusses his 10-year vision including international speaking tours and adapting his first book into a motion picture. The conversation transitions smoothly into sponsor messages and social links.21:13–24:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jake Ducey Nathan leads the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Jake's speaking fee of $7,500, Oren Klaff's book Pitch Anything, and the importance of patience.0:27–4:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Weekly Cash Winner Announcement and iTunes Contest Details Nathan introduces Jake and sets the premise of the show, demanding tactical answers rather than hippie philosophy. Jake explains his journey of dropping out of college at 19 and being rejected by traditional publishers before self-publishing.4:51–7:25 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Self-Publishing Economics and Working with a Literary Agent Nathan digs into the revenue and cost breakdown of Jake's first book. Jake shares specific printing costs of 74 cents per copy and advises aspiring authors against paying thousands for predatory vanity publishing packages.7:25–9:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Landing Penguin Deal and Publishing 'The Purpose Principles' Nathan presses on how Jake landed Penguin Random House and what kind of advance he secured. Jake reveals he negotiated a $30,000 advance at age 22 backed by his proven self-published sales record and Jack Canfield's mentorship.9:48–13:38 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Fulfillment Philosophy, Traditional Publishing Royalties, and Credibility Nathan questions why Jake would take a traditional publishing deal with a low $1 per book royalty compared to self-publishing. Jake justifies the trade-off by pointing out the brand credibility and avoidance of operational headaches.13:38–15:57 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Monetizing Speaking Engagements and Ryan Holiday PR Strategy Nathan inquires about Jake's actual revenue generation through speaking tours. Jake details his 95 gigs yielding 75% of his annual income and explains paying Ryan Holiday for one-on-one PR strategy coaching.15:57–18:23 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Launching 'Profit from Happiness' and Youth Donation Initiative Jake details his upcoming book Profit from Happiness and his one-for-one donation model providing books to underprivileged youth. Nathan contrasts Jake's social-first mission with his own self-admitted ego-driven business approach.18:23–21:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Long-Term Vision, Motion Picture Ambitions, and Social Channels Jake discusses his 10-year vision including international speaking tours and adapting his first book into a motion picture. The conversation transitions smoothly into sponsor messages and social links.21:13–24:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jake Ducey Nathan leads the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Jake's speaking fee of $7,500, Oren Klaff's book Pitch Anything, and the importance of patience.0:27–4:51 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Weekly Cash Winner Announcement and iTunes Contest Details Nathan introduces Jake and sets the premise of the show, demanding tactical answers rather than hippie philosophy. Jake explains his journey of dropping out of college at 19 and being rejected by traditional publishers before self-publishing.4:51–7:25 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Self-Publishing Economics and Working with a Literary Agent Nathan digs into the revenue and cost breakdown of Jake's first book. Jake shares specific printing costs of 74 cents per copy and advises aspiring authors against paying thousands for predatory vanity publishing packages.7:25–9:48 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Landing Penguin Deal and Publishing 'The Purpose Principles' Nathan presses on how Jake landed Penguin Random House and what kind of advance he secured. Jake reveals he negotiated a $30,000 advance at age 22 backed by his proven self-published sales record and Jack Canfield's mentorship.9:48–13:38 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Fulfillment Philosophy, Traditional Publishing Royalties, and Credibility Nathan questions why Jake would take a traditional publishing deal with a low $1 per book royalty compared to self-publishing. Jake justifies the trade-off by pointing out the brand credibility and avoidance of operational headaches.13:38–15:57 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Monetizing Speaking Engagements and Ryan Holiday PR Strategy Nathan inquires about Jake's actual revenue generation through speaking tours. Jake details his 95 gigs yielding 75% of his annual income and explains paying Ryan Holiday for one-on-one PR strategy coaching.15:57–18:23 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Launching 'Profit from Happiness' and Youth Donation Initiative Jake details his upcoming book Profit from Happiness and his one-for-one donation model providing books to underprivileged youth. Nathan contrasts Jake's social-first mission with his own self-admitted ego-driven business approach.18:23–21:12 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Long-Term Vision, Motion Picture Ambitions, and Social Channels Jake discusses his 10-year vision including international speaking tours and adapting his first book into a motion picture. The conversation transitions smoothly into sponsor messages and social links.21:13–24:08 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jake Ducey Nathan leads the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Jake's speaking fee of $7,500, Oren Klaff's book Pitch Anything, and the importance of patience.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 82.3% · guest 17.7%0:00 · Nathan 82.3% · guest 17.7%3:00 · Nathan 21.6% · guest 78.4%3:00 · Nathan 21.6% · guest 78.4%6:00 · Nathan 34.4% · guest 65.6%6:00 · Nathan 34.4% · guest 65.6%9:00 · Nathan 42% · guest 58%9:00 · Nathan 42% · guest 58%12:00 · Nathan 34.9% · guest 65.1%12:00 · Nathan 34.9% · guest 65.1%15:00 · Nathan 22.2% · guest 77.8%15:00 · Nathan 22.2% · guest 77.8%18:00 · Nathan 47% · guest 53%18:00 · Nathan 47% · guest 53%21:00 · Nathan 48.8% · guest 51.2%21:00 · Nathan 48.8% · guest 51.2%24:00 · Nathan 97.1% · guest 2.9%24:00 · Nathan 97.1% · guest 2.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:22 Jake counters profit maximization with credibility value

Jake pushes back against Nathan's focus solely on immediate profit margins, arguing that Penguin's prestige and distribution support open higher-value speaking opportunities.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:22 Nathan probes why Jake accepted an inferior royalty rate

Nathan refuses to gloss over the math, pressing Jake on whether giving up huge self-publishing profits for a $1 royalty is truly worth it just for a publisher stamp.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:34 Jake exposes vanity publishing package costs

Jake educates listeners and Nathan on the predatory pricing of commercial self-publishing packages, demonstrating how authors can publish independently for hundreds instead of thousands.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:01 Nathan benchmarks publishing advances against industry standards

Nathan demonstrates industry knowledge by comparing Penguin's $30,000 advance against standard publisher packages like Morgan James Publishing.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Weekly Cash Winner Announcement and iTunes Contest Details 4312 Nathan introduces Jake and sets the premise of the show, demanding tactical answers rather than hippie philosophy. Jake explains his journey of dropping out of college at 19 and being rejected by traditional publishers before self-publishing.
Self-Publishing Economics and Working with a Literary Agent 5412 Nathan digs into the revenue and cost breakdown of Jake's first book. Jake shares specific printing costs of 74 cents per copy and advises aspiring authors against paying thousands for predatory vanity publishing packages.
Landing Penguin Deal and Publishing 'The Purpose Principles' 4412 Nathan presses on how Jake landed Penguin Random House and what kind of advance he secured. Jake reveals he negotiated a $30,000 advance at age 22 backed by his proven self-published sales record and Jack Canfield's mentorship.
Fulfillment Philosophy, Traditional Publishing Royalties, and Credibility 5323 Nathan questions why Jake would take a traditional publishing deal with a low $1 per book royalty compared to self-publishing. Jake justifies the trade-off by pointing out the brand credibility and avoidance of operational headaches.
Monetizing Speaking Engagements and Ryan Holiday PR Strategy 4312 Nathan inquires about Jake's actual revenue generation through speaking tours. Jake details his 95 gigs yielding 75% of his annual income and explains paying Ryan Holiday for one-on-one PR strategy coaching.
Launching 'Profit from Happiness' and Youth Donation Initiative 3311 Jake details his upcoming book Profit from Happiness and his one-for-one donation model providing books to underprivileged youth. Nathan contrasts Jake's social-first mission with his own self-admitted ego-driven business approach.
Long-Term Vision, Motion Picture Ambitions, and Social Channels 2211 Jake discusses his 10-year vision including international speaking tours and adapting his first book into a motion picture. The conversation transitions smoothly into sponsor messages and social links.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Jake Ducey 4211 Nathan leads the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Jake's speaking fee of $7,500, Oren Klaff's book Pitch Anything, and the importance of patience.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ducey sold 30,000 print copies of his self-published debut
“We sold about 30,000 in print.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 4:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ducey sold 15,000 eBook copies of his self-published debut
“In online, we'd probably done like, it's probably done half of that in eBooks or so.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 4:46
Disclosure
Ducey earned $100,000 in income from his self-published debut
“Oh man, from that book alone, I probably, I printed them myself and still do. So I put it back in, but I probably done it probably about maybe like a hundred, a 100,000.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 5:02
Disclosure
Ducey prints self-published books for 75 cents against $14.95 retail
“Listing price. I mean, it's, it says 1495, but I mean, if you self publish, I print them for 75 cents, 74 cents.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 5:18
Opinion
Ducey: Vanity publishers like Balboa 'rip you off' with $3,900 packages
“A lot of, about Balboa and these companies, you know, for anyone listening, it, it's disheartening to see the self-publishing packages that are 39, 3900, and you get 10 books, they rip you off.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 6:43
Disclosure
Penguin Random House paid Ducey a $30,000 advance for his second book
“No, it was 30,000.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 9:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ducey has sold around 20,000 copies of 'The Purpose Principles'
“It's about at that same, I'm about at 20 right now.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 11:52
Assertion Contradicted
Ducey: 'Into the Wind' is required curriculum in some LA school districts
“Yeah, I make more money still off Into the Wind than the other one, because Into the Wind, that's the self-published, is now required curriculum in school districts in, in Los Angeles, not in all of them, but in some of them, so I make more off that.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 12:04
Disclosure
Speaking engagements accounted for 75% of Ducey's income in 2015
“It was probably it was probably 75% of my income.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 14:30
Disclosure
Ducey charges corporate organizations a $7,500 speaking fee
“I mean, I do less for schools, but I've been doing 7500 for organizations.”
Jake Ducey Jun 22, 2016 ▶ 21:28
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