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Aug 3, 2016 · 23m · top-founders

EP 375: Dad of 4 Holds Secret to Buying Time, Clearing Your Calendar With Ari Miesel of LessDoing.com

Nathan Latka · 10m spoken Ari Meisel · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Less Doing founder Ari Meisel to dissect the unit economics, bootstrapping strategy, and content-driven acquisition behind his high-growth virtual project management company. Meisel also shares actionable productivity insights on automating operations, publishing bestsellers, and maintaining work-life balance while raising four children.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 51.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 4.3 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 2.4
05100:0010:0020:001:34–3:45 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Ari Meisel and the Less Doing Business Model Nathan directs the conversation toward revenue attribution and correctly categorizes the recurring membership model as a SaaS business. Ari explains how the service functions as an on-demand chief of staff rather than a standard virtual assistant agency.3:45–8:38 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Scaling, Client Acquisition, and Specialized Talent Sourcing Nathan shares his own firsthand workflow using Less Doing and contrasts it with platforms like Upwork. Ari details how they source specialized talent for specific business workflows rather than just general VAs.8:40–11:56 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Unit Economics, Record Monthly Growth, and Bootstrapped Independence Nathan drills into the unit economics and actively presses Ari to reveal the specific details of funding offers they declined. Ari explains their bootstrapped profitability and high internal utilization.11:56–14:08 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Podcast Audience Metrics and Episode Sponsorship Economics Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between weekly episode downloads and monthly totals. Ari schools him on the long-tail compounding effect of back-catalog episodes.14:08–16:57 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Book Publishing Strategy and The Ghostwriting Experiment Nathan probes Ari's publishing sales volume and royalty splits. Ari shares an unconventional ghostwriting strategy where a four-hundred-dollar video transcription turned into a Penguin book deal.16:58–19:55 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Balancing Family, Sabbatical from Speaking, and the Core Less Doing Philosophy The conversation touches on balancing speaking schedules with family life after the birth of Ari's child, followed by a mid-roll advertisement read by Nathan.19:56–21:46 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ari Meisel Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, teasing Ari about his early real estate ventures before Ari transparently shares losing millions in debt despite attending Wharton.1:34–3:45 · Guest teaching 5/10 Introducing Ari Meisel and the Less Doing Business Model Nathan directs the conversation toward revenue attribution and correctly categorizes the recurring membership model as a SaaS business. Ari explains how the service functions as an on-demand chief of staff rather than a standard virtual assistant agency.3:45–8:38 · Guest teaching 4/10 Revenue Scaling, Client Acquisition, and Specialized Talent Sourcing Nathan shares his own firsthand workflow using Less Doing and contrasts it with platforms like Upwork. Ari details how they source specialized talent for specific business workflows rather than just general VAs.8:40–11:56 · Guest teaching 3/10 Unit Economics, Record Monthly Growth, and Bootstrapped Independence Nathan drills into the unit economics and actively presses Ari to reveal the specific details of funding offers they declined. Ari explains their bootstrapped profitability and high internal utilization.11:56–14:08 · Guest teaching 6/10 Podcast Audience Metrics and Episode Sponsorship Economics Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between weekly episode downloads and monthly totals. Ari schools him on the long-tail compounding effect of back-catalog episodes.14:08–16:57 · Guest teaching 5/10 Book Publishing Strategy and The Ghostwriting Experiment Nathan probes Ari's publishing sales volume and royalty splits. Ari shares an unconventional ghostwriting strategy where a four-hundred-dollar video transcription turned into a Penguin book deal.16:58–19:55 · Guest teaching 3/10 Balancing Family, Sabbatical from Speaking, and the Core Less Doing Philosophy The conversation touches on balancing speaking schedules with family life after the birth of Ari's child, followed by a mid-roll advertisement read by Nathan.19:56–21:46 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ari Meisel Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, teasing Ari about his early real estate ventures before Ari transparently shares losing millions in debt despite attending Wharton.1:34–3:45 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Ari Meisel and the Less Doing Business Model Nathan directs the conversation toward revenue attribution and correctly categorizes the recurring membership model as a SaaS business. Ari explains how the service functions as an on-demand chief of staff rather than a standard virtual assistant agency.3:45–8:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Scaling, Client Acquisition, and Specialized Talent Sourcing Nathan shares his own firsthand workflow using Less Doing and contrasts it with platforms like Upwork. Ari details how they source specialized talent for specific business workflows rather than just general VAs.8:40–11:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Unit Economics, Record Monthly Growth, and Bootstrapped Independence Nathan drills into the unit economics and actively presses Ari to reveal the specific details of funding offers they declined. Ari explains their bootstrapped profitability and high internal utilization.11:56–14:08 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Podcast Audience Metrics and Episode Sponsorship Economics Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between weekly episode downloads and monthly totals. Ari schools him on the long-tail compounding effect of back-catalog episodes.14:08–16:57 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Book Publishing Strategy and The Ghostwriting Experiment Nathan probes Ari's publishing sales volume and royalty splits. Ari shares an unconventional ghostwriting strategy where a four-hundred-dollar video transcription turned into a Penguin book deal.16:58–19:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Balancing Family, Sabbatical from Speaking, and the Core Less Doing Philosophy The conversation touches on balancing speaking schedules with family life after the birth of Ari's child, followed by a mid-roll advertisement read by Nathan.19:56–21:46 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ari Meisel Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, teasing Ari about his early real estate ventures before Ari transparently shares losing millions in debt despite attending Wharton.1:34–3:45 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Ari Meisel and the Less Doing Business Model Nathan directs the conversation toward revenue attribution and correctly categorizes the recurring membership model as a SaaS business. Ari explains how the service functions as an on-demand chief of staff rather than a standard virtual assistant agency.3:45–8:38 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Revenue Scaling, Client Acquisition, and Specialized Talent Sourcing Nathan shares his own firsthand workflow using Less Doing and contrasts it with platforms like Upwork. Ari details how they source specialized talent for specific business workflows rather than just general VAs.8:40–11:56 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Unit Economics, Record Monthly Growth, and Bootstrapped Independence Nathan drills into the unit economics and actively presses Ari to reveal the specific details of funding offers they declined. Ari explains their bootstrapped profitability and high internal utilization.11:56–14:08 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Podcast Audience Metrics and Episode Sponsorship Economics Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between weekly episode downloads and monthly totals. Ari schools him on the long-tail compounding effect of back-catalog episodes.14:08–16:57 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Book Publishing Strategy and The Ghostwriting Experiment Nathan probes Ari's publishing sales volume and royalty splits. Ari shares an unconventional ghostwriting strategy where a four-hundred-dollar video transcription turned into a Penguin book deal.16:58–19:55 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Balancing Family, Sabbatical from Speaking, and the Core Less Doing Philosophy The conversation touches on balancing speaking schedules with family life after the birth of Ari's child, followed by a mid-roll advertisement read by Nathan.19:56–21:46 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ari Meisel Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, teasing Ari about his early real estate ventures before Ari transparently shares losing millions in debt despite attending Wharton.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 74.8% · guest 25.2%0:00 · Nathan 74.8% · guest 25.2%3:00 · Nathan 33.5% · guest 66.5%3:00 · Nathan 33.5% · guest 66.5%6:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%6:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%9:00 · Nathan 25.1% · guest 74.9%9:00 · Nathan 25.1% · guest 74.9%12:00 · Nathan 38.9% · guest 61.1%12:00 · Nathan 38.9% · guest 61.1%15:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%15:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%18:00 · Nathan 89.3% · guest 10.7%18:00 · Nathan 89.3% · guest 10.7%21:00 · Nathan 88.4% · guest 11.6%21:00 · Nathan 88.4% · guest 11.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 21:11 Ari refutes the Rich Dad Poor Dad assumption

When Nathan assumes Ari lost money in real estate by naively following Rich Dad Poor Dad, Ari directly rejects the premise, clarifying he graduated from Wharton and simply failed to heed the course material.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:03 Nathan refuses to let Ari gloss over funding offers

Nathan aggressively refuses to let Ari brush past mention of outside investment offers, explicitly demanding the exact numbers and rationale behind declining them.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:04 Ari educates Nathan on podcast back-catalog downloads

Nathan questions Ari's monthly download math, prompting Ari to educate him on how a 220-episode library generates steady long-tail downloads independent of weekly releases.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:48 Nathan identifies the mathematical discrepancy in download counts

Nathan demonstrates sharp domain expertise in podcast metrics by instantly running the mental math on four weekly episodes versus monthly downloads to spot the gap.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Ari Meisel and the Less Doing Business Model 6512 Nathan directs the conversation toward revenue attribution and correctly categorizes the recurring membership model as a SaaS business. Ari explains how the service functions as an on-demand chief of staff rather than a standard virtual assistant agency.
Revenue Scaling, Client Acquisition, and Specialized Talent Sourcing 6412 Nathan shares his own firsthand workflow using Less Doing and contrasts it with platforms like Upwork. Ari details how they source specialized talent for specific business workflows rather than just general VAs.
Unit Economics, Record Monthly Growth, and Bootstrapped Independence 5324 Nathan drills into the unit economics and actively presses Ari to reveal the specific details of funding offers they declined. Ari explains their bootstrapped profitability and high internal utilization.
Podcast Audience Metrics and Episode Sponsorship Economics 6625 Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between weekly episode downloads and monthly totals. Ari schools him on the long-tail compounding effect of back-catalog episodes.
Book Publishing Strategy and The Ghostwriting Experiment 5511 Nathan probes Ari's publishing sales volume and royalty splits. Ari shares an unconventional ghostwriting strategy where a four-hundred-dollar video transcription turned into a Penguin book deal.
Balancing Family, Sabbatical from Speaking, and the Core Less Doing Philosophy 4311 The conversation touches on balancing speaking schedules with family life after the birth of Ari's child, followed by a mid-roll advertisement read by Nathan.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Ari Meisel 4422 Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, teasing Ari about his early real estate ventures before Ari transparently shares losing millions in debt despite attending Wharton.

Statements from this episode (14)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Meisel: VA business drove most of Less Doing's 2015 revenue despite Q3 launch
“The virtual assistant company by far, even though the virtual assistant company started in the third quarter of last year.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 2:28
Disclosure
Less Doing charges $149 monthly and $50 an hour billed by the second
“People sign up for a subscription of a 149 dollars per month, which is basically a membership fee, and then they're paying 50 dollars per hour, and we bill by the second.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 3:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ari Meisel: Less Doing generated around $200,000 in 2015 revenue
“In 2015, ah, I wanna say it was 200,000.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 4:04
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Meisel predicts Less Doing will top $1M in 2016 revenue
“Oh, we're going to break a million for sure.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 4:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ari Meisel: Less Doing has around 170 paying monthly clients
“I think we're, at last count would be like in one-seventy-ish range.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 4:33
Insight
Ari Meisel: High performers rarely self-identify as unproductive
“Part of the problem in our business is a lot of, very few people who are high performers self-identify as unproductive.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 5:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ari Meisel: Less Doing employs over 120 people, mostly specialists
“Fortunately, we're at a place now, we have over a 120 people on the team, only about 20 of those are VAs, the rest are specialists, and we niche way down, like we have somebody who just does A-B testing.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 8:14
Disclosure
Ari Meisel plans to intentionally cap Less Doing at 300 clients
“I have no interest in us having thousands of clients. I really, I want, I would like this to have 300 clients, you know, 5000 hours, like a month. That would be great.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 10:42
Disclosure
Meisel: Less Doing Has Taken Zero Outside Capital
“We have not put a cent into the company and we have been refusing money left and right. Actually, we haven't had a single dollar into it.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 10:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ari Meisel: Less Doing podcast generates 30,000 monthly downloads across 220+ episodes
“It's about 3000 per episode, and we're getting about 30,000 total downloads per month because, you know, I have 220 something episodes.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 13:04
Disclosure
Ari Meisel: Sponsors pay $500 per episode on Less Doing podcast
“People pay 500 dollars an episode to be on our podcast, but it's not every episode. I'd say it's probably every three episodes we'll have a sponsor.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 13:43
Insight
When outsourcing fails, 90% of the time it is the delegator's fault
“I'm a big believer that if you make, if you give something to a competent outsource provider and they make a mistake, it's 90% of the time it is your fault because you didn't give them the information the right way or you didn't relay the task properly.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 15:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Meisel: Less Doing, More Living has sold 30,000 softcover copies
“The book has sold 30,000 copies.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 16:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ari Meisel accumulated $3 million in construction debt at age 23
“I was, I put myself in three million dollars of debt when I was 23 in a construction project, and fortunately I came out of it.”
Ari Meisel Aug 3, 2016 ▶ 21:01
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