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Aug 21, 2016 · 18m · top-founders

EP 393: How to Do Your Own Thing at 22 with Danavir Sarria of CopyMonk

Danavir Sarria · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews 22-year-old CopyMonk co-founder Danavir Sarria about transitioning from freelance copywriting to selling direct response courses online. Danavir breaks down his aggressive email marketing strategies, course launch economics, and why entrepreneurs should prioritize direct revenue over vanity metrics.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 49.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 2.4 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:001:05–3:31 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Preview of Tomorrow's Snapchat Episode Nathan introduces the guest and questions him on his early revenue figures and background after college. Danavir provides straightforward answers about his initial digital course sales.3:31–5:59 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Email Sales Strategy and Managing Unsubscribes Nathan challenges Danavir on burning through his email list after losing nearly 10 percent to unsubscribes over a 3-day promo. Danavir pushes back against standard email marketing metrics, arguing that only conversions and true buyers matter in direct response.5:59–8:11 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Evaluating and Hiring Effective Copywriters Nathan asks how business owners can cut through the noise when hiring competent copywriters. Danavir explains the necessity of finding people who understand overarching marketing strategy rather than just stylistic writing.8:11–12:35 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Freelancing Realities and Building CopyMonk Nathan pushes hard on why Danavir sells courses instead of taking high-paying client work, challenging his inability to quote specific client ROI metrics. Danavir defends his shift away from freelance work by citing client communication friction and retainer retention.12:37–16:08 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Mid-Roll Sponsors: HostGator and FreshBooks Contains sponsor reads followed by the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire and Nathan's promotional outro.1:05–3:31 · Guest teaching 1/10 Preview of Tomorrow's Snapchat Episode Nathan introduces the guest and questions him on his early revenue figures and background after college. Danavir provides straightforward answers about his initial digital course sales.3:31–5:59 · Guest teaching 4/10 Email Sales Strategy and Managing Unsubscribes Nathan challenges Danavir on burning through his email list after losing nearly 10 percent to unsubscribes over a 3-day promo. Danavir pushes back against standard email marketing metrics, arguing that only conversions and true buyers matter in direct response.5:59–8:11 · Guest teaching 3/10 Evaluating and Hiring Effective Copywriters Nathan asks how business owners can cut through the noise when hiring competent copywriters. Danavir explains the necessity of finding people who understand overarching marketing strategy rather than just stylistic writing.8:11–12:35 · Guest teaching 3/10 Freelancing Realities and Building CopyMonk Nathan pushes hard on why Danavir sells courses instead of taking high-paying client work, challenging his inability to quote specific client ROI metrics. Danavir defends his shift away from freelance work by citing client communication friction and retainer retention.12:37–16:08 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mid-Roll Sponsors: HostGator and FreshBooks Contains sponsor reads followed by the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire and Nathan's promotional outro.1:05–3:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Preview of Tomorrow's Snapchat Episode Nathan introduces the guest and questions him on his early revenue figures and background after college. Danavir provides straightforward answers about his initial digital course sales.3:31–5:59 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Email Sales Strategy and Managing Unsubscribes Nathan challenges Danavir on burning through his email list after losing nearly 10 percent to unsubscribes over a 3-day promo. Danavir pushes back against standard email marketing metrics, arguing that only conversions and true buyers matter in direct response.5:59–8:11 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Evaluating and Hiring Effective Copywriters Nathan asks how business owners can cut through the noise when hiring competent copywriters. Danavir explains the necessity of finding people who understand overarching marketing strategy rather than just stylistic writing.8:11–12:35 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Freelancing Realities and Building CopyMonk Nathan pushes hard on why Danavir sells courses instead of taking high-paying client work, challenging his inability to quote specific client ROI metrics. Danavir defends his shift away from freelance work by citing client communication friction and retainer retention.12:37–16:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Mid-Roll Sponsors: HostGator and FreshBooks Contains sponsor reads followed by the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire and Nathan's promotional outro.1:05–3:31 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Preview of Tomorrow's Snapchat Episode Nathan introduces the guest and questions him on his early revenue figures and background after college. Danavir provides straightforward answers about his initial digital course sales.3:31–5:59 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Email Sales Strategy and Managing Unsubscribes Nathan challenges Danavir on burning through his email list after losing nearly 10 percent to unsubscribes over a 3-day promo. Danavir pushes back against standard email marketing metrics, arguing that only conversions and true buyers matter in direct response.5:59–8:11 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Evaluating and Hiring Effective Copywriters Nathan asks how business owners can cut through the noise when hiring competent copywriters. Danavir explains the necessity of finding people who understand overarching marketing strategy rather than just stylistic writing.8:11–12:35 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Freelancing Realities and Building CopyMonk Nathan pushes hard on why Danavir sells courses instead of taking high-paying client work, challenging his inability to quote specific client ROI metrics. Danavir defends his shift away from freelance work by citing client communication friction and retainer retention.12:37–16:08 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Mid-Roll Sponsors: HostGator and FreshBooks Contains sponsor reads followed by the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire and Nathan's promotional outro.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 64% · guest 36%0:00 · Nathan 64% · guest 36%3:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%3:00 · Nathan 16.9% · guest 83.1%6:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%6:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%9:00 · Nathan 30% · guest 70%9:00 · Nathan 30% · guest 70%12:00 · Nathan 79.2% · guest 20.8%12:00 · Nathan 79.2% · guest 20.8%15:00 · Nathan 80.8% · guest 19.2%15:00 · Nathan 80.8% · guest 19.2%18:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%18:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 4:07 Dismissing vanity email metrics

Danavir rejects conventional email marketing concerns by arguing that click-through rates, open rates, and unsubscribe numbers do not matter compared to raw sales.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:30 Demanding proof of client success

Nathan directly challenges Danavir's credentials, asking how he can claim to be a great copywriter when he cannot cite specific performance data from prior clients.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:34 Setting subscriber expectations through daily cadence

Danavir explains the mechanics of aggressive direct-response email marketing, detailing how daily value-driven storytelling weeds out non-buyers while cultivating superfans.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:55 Latka's rule on mandatory data reporting

Nathan shares his own operational standard of terminating any sponsor or client relationship that fails to deliver bi-weekly data reports on attribution.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Preview of Tomorrow's Snapchat Episode 3112 Nathan introduces the guest and questions him on his early revenue figures and background after college. Danavir provides straightforward answers about his initial digital course sales.
Email Sales Strategy and Managing Unsubscribes 5446 Nathan challenges Danavir on burning through his email list after losing nearly 10 percent to unsubscribes over a 3-day promo. Danavir pushes back against standard email marketing metrics, arguing that only conversions and true buyers matter in direct response.
Evaluating and Hiring Effective Copywriters 4323 Nathan asks how business owners can cut through the noise when hiring competent copywriters. Danavir explains the necessity of finding people who understand overarching marketing strategy rather than just stylistic writing.
Freelancing Realities and Building CopyMonk 6347 Nathan pushes hard on why Danavir sells courses instead of taking high-paying client work, challenging his inability to quote specific client ROI metrics. Danavir defends his shift away from freelance work by citing client communication friction and retainer retention.
Mid-Roll Sponsors: HostGator and FreshBooks 2111 Contains sponsor reads followed by the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire and Nathan's promotional outro.

Statements from this episode (3)

Disclosure
CopyMonk generated $4,000 from a July 4th campaign to 1,700 subscribers
“Like, well, in total, not, not exactly in the last two months. Like the last I just made 4000 dollars of that. And within I had a fourth of July sale going on from the fourth to the sixth. And with an email list of just like, you know, 1500 people, 1700 people…”
Danavir Sarria Aug 21, 2016 ▶ 3:16
Insight
Sarria: Standard email metrics do not matter in direct response
“I guess you could think of it that way, but in a way that is that at least in, in pure direct responses, which is the world I come from, it doesn't like unsubscribe rates, click through rates, open rates. None of that stuff matters at all. What matters is sale…”
Danavir Sarria Aug 21, 2016 ▶ 4:07
Disclosure
Latka rejects podcast sponsors who withhold biweekly sales data
“I take no podcast sponsors, unless they tell me their data in a reporting format once every two weeks. And if you're not telling me if I'm driving you sales or not, I'm not doing business with you.”
Nathan Latka Aug 21, 2016 ▶ 11:05
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