Sep 14, 2016 · 1h 13m · top-founders
EP 417 SPECIAL: Warner Interviews Latka: Con Artist or Brilliant Genius?
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this intense crossover interview, Mixergy founder Andrew Warner rigorously interrogates entrepreneur and podcaster Nathan Latka regarding his controversial business track record, aggressive persona, and media strategies. Through sharp debate and live metric verifications, the exchange examines whether Latka's polarizing tactics represent calculated genius or unsubstantiated hype.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 61.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Nathan as informed peer 6.6 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 5.0 Nathan pushing back 6.1
speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:43 Andrew confronts Nathan over investor financial losses
Andrew aggressively challenges Nathan's exit narrative, insisting investor sources confirmed they received back less cash than invested.
Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 50:35 Nathan refuses framing of deceptive conference promotionNathan defends listing high-profile speakers under 'confirmed and invited,' rejecting the claim that it is deceptive and arguing it smartly de-risks event production.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:05 Nathan breaks down venture capital liquidation mechanicsNathan educates Andrew on how preferred liquidation preferences can result in angel investors receiving nothing despite a successful sale.
Nathan holds their own ▶ 48:20 Nathan screenshares live 2.3 million download dashboardWhen challenged to prove his audience claims, Nathan immediately shares his screen to reveal 2.3 million total listens and shuts down doubt.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Nathan as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Nathan pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nathan Latka Introduces the Special Mixergy Crossover Episode | 6 | 3 | 5 | 6 | Nathan introduces the special crossover format and defends his confrontational online persona, specifically addressing his public spat with Social Media Examiner's Michael Stelzner. Andrew presses Nathan on whether he intentionally provokes people to play a Donald Trump-like shock jock persona. Nathan explains the high conversion metrics behind his controversial email campaign. | |
| Examining Heyo's Financial Performance and Investor Returns | 7 | 6 | 7 | 7 | Andrew aggressively interrogates the real sale price and returns of Heyo, pointing out that total cumulative revenue over five years implies a modest exit where investors lost capital. Nathan pushes back by breaking down liquidation preferences and series A terms, admitting some angels got less while maintaining the board unanimously approved the transaction. | |
| Recording Acquisition Negotiations and the 'Deal God' Mentality | 6 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Nathan explains his decision to record and publish the acquisition negotiations with Votigo, dubbing himself a deal god who loves the rush of dealmaking. Andrew questions whether the sale was an admission that the Facebook contest model had peaked. | |
| Addressing the Brian Moran White-Label Controversy | 6 | 4 | 6 | 5 | Andrew brings up allegations that Nathan poached white-label customers from Brian Moran. Nathan clarifies that cross-promotional affiliate lists naturally overlap in the internet marketing niche and denies intentionally targeting Moran's clients. | |
| Studying Trump's Persuasion Techniques and Stating Long-Term Ambitions | 7 | 3 | 4 | 6 | Nathan details how he studies Donald Trump's speeches on mute to adopt dominant body language and power gestures. He boldly outlines his self-fulfilling affirmations, declaring he will take a company public by 30 and run for president in 2036. | |
| Acquiring Send Later and the Philosophy of Copying Proven Models | 7 | 3 | 3 | 5 | Nathan describes acquiring the Chrome extension Send Later for $750 and adding usage paywalls. He strongly advocates shamelessly copying proven business models early on rather than trying to invent new categories. | |
| Managing Personal Flaws, Empathy Systems, and Relationship Sacrifices | 6 | 4 | 4 | 5 | Nathan candidly discusses his lack of natural empathy, explaining how he builds systematic checklists for human relationships and avoids romantic partnerships to conserve energy and eliminate vulnerabilities. | |
| The Strategic Value of Unpredictability and Misdirection | 6 | 4 | 4 | 5 | Nathan argues that staying unpredictable prevents competitors and critics from attacking him, referencing Carl Icahn's tactics against Bill Ackman. Andrew and Nathan also debate conference ticket sales models and podcast ad structures. | |
| Nathan Reveals Live Podcast Analytics and Download Metrics | 8 | 2 | 6 | 8 | Andrew challenges Nathan to prove his claim of two million podcast downloads. Nathan screenshares live analytics proving 2.3 million all-time downloads and nearly 190,000 monthly listens, validating his metrics on the spot. | |
| De-Risking Live Events and Turning Vulnerability into Momentum | 7 | 4 | 6 | 7 | Andrew questions the ethics of listing Carl Icahn and J.K. Rowling as 'confirmed and invited' speakers on a conference landing page. Nathan explains the financial strategy of de-risking live events by testing demand before committing capital to speaker fees. | |
| Cease-and-Desist Demands and Aggressive Interview Practices | 7 | 3 | 5 | 7 | Nathan discusses receiving four cease-and-desist letters a month from legal teams after pressuring executive guests into sharing confidential financials, defending his aggressive interviewing approach as prioritizing audience education over guest comfort. |
Statements from this episode (36)
Latka does not research podcast guests before interviewing them
“I don't do any research for my guests because I think that when I interview them, I'll gloss over things I learned in the past.”
Latka criticizes Michael Stelzner's Social Media Marketing World conference
“Michael Stelzner I just think he misses a lot, right? So, I've been to his conference many times, you know, social media marketing world, and it's like just filled with people that are social media consultants”
Latka: Email campaign got 60%+ open rate and 1,100+ 40-minute survey completions
“Over a 60% open rate. Okay. And over, basically I got over 1100 people to spend over 40 minutes Filling out a survey.”
Latka: Heyo raised $2.5M in VC and reached $5M in sales
“As we built Heyo, raised two and a half million bucks in venture capital, hit five million in sales”
Latka admits Heyo's $5M revenue figure was cumulative over five years
“That was our cumulative revenue. ... Over five years.”
Latka: Heyo returned seven figures to investors upon acquisition
“And quite frankly, we gave seven figures back to investors.”
Latka confirms some Heyo investors lost money in the exit
“So it is a 100% true that there were investors that got back less money than what they put in.”
Latka made recording acquisition calls with Votigo a condition of sale
“I recorded the negotiations, I mean, with my team when I sold the business... And the buyer... I made it contingent. I mean, part of the deal, we had many, many offers on the table.”
Latka describes himself as a 'deal god'
“Look, I'm also, I think, a deal god. I'm really good at deals.”
Latka regrets not selling Heyo before a failed pivot in 2012
“One, the mark, we missed the maximum. We missed twenty-twelve selling. We should have sold in twenty-twelve. We raised capital, additional capital to try a new concept, which was social selling, which failed, right?”
Latka: Gumroad laid off 25 employees because social selling market is too early
“Gumroad just laid off 25 employees. That market has not taken off it. It's too early.”
Latka admits customer overlap with Brian Moran occurred, denies intent
“So, so did some of that potentially happen where we're both reaching the same customer? 100%. Was it intentional? Absolutely not.”
Latka offered $5M to acquire Success Magazine in failed PR stunt
“I offered five million bucks to acquire success magazine, right? In a very public way. And I was trying to use the press to get the deal done. And we can talk about that later, but that ultimately failed.”
Latka predicts he will take a company public by age 30
“I, Andrew, I want your listeners to know this. It's recorded. I'm taking company public by the time I turn 30.”
Latka predicts he will run for US President and win in 2036
“I plan to run for president and win in 2036.”
Latka predicts he will run a $100B hedge fund
“I will run the world's largest hedge fund with a hundred billion dollars in assets under management.”
Latka predicts he will take a $100B REIT public before age 60
“I will take a REIT public before I turn 60 with again, a hundred billion dollars in real estate assets under management.”
Latka advises early-stage founders to aggressively copy competitors over inventing categories
“I believe in copying like hell. Anyone who has an ego that thinks they're going to create something new is never going to be successful, in my opinion, right? Especially, I'll take that, especially in the early phases. Once you're an Elon Musk, you can start t…”
Latka acquired Send Later Chrome extension and 30,000 users for $750
“And then I saw this extension, which had 30,000 users already, which by the way comes with an email list, right? That's a 30,000 person email list that I'm essentially acquiring for 750 bucks.”
Latka claims 99 percent of people on Earth are totally useless
“I think 99% of people on earth, they're totally useless. They don't think much, and they rely on other people.”
Latka avoids romantic relationships because they give others leverage over him
“This is one of the reasons, by the way, I don't have a relationship. It becomes very, if I have a relationship, it becomes obviously clear what I care about, whoever I'm with, right? And if people then know how to cater to whoever I'm with, it's actually a wea…”
Latka: Success Magazine gets 2M unique visitors compared to Forbes' 30M
“This is why I'm going to throw a five million dollar acquisition out for success magazine when frankly, it's like the worst performing magazine, two million uniques when Forbes gets thirty million.”
Latka: Concealing business moves prevents competitors from attacking
“If nobody knows what I'm doing, I can't be attacked. I mean, it's that simple.”
Latka: Being unpredictable commands attention and builds a following
“You need to be unpredictable, people pay attention, and they're going to follow.”
Latka claims most industry conference speakers pay to be on stage
“I understand that most of the speakers are paying to be on stage. They're spot. Look, it's just the revenue of, it's just the model.”
Leadpages paid Andrew Warner roughly $16,000 for a Mixergy podcast ad campaign
“I think it's for all of the interviews that we're doing together for all the ads that we're doing together, something like 16,000 dollars for the ads.”
Latka claims podcast sponsors get ripped off in a fragmented market
“The podcasting space right now, as you know, it's unbelievably fragmented and sponsors are getting ripped off left and right.”
Latka refuses to work with podcast sponsors who withhold performance data
“I will not work with the sponsor unless they tell me if it's successful or not.”
Latka claims his podcast, The Top, has surpassed two million downloads
“I have way more than two million downloads.”
Latka deceptively lists unconfirmed speakers to sell conference tickets
“What it said, if you go look at that particular part, it said confirmed and invited. They have been either confirmed or invited. And what I will tell you, as sales come in and I have more money to play with, the likelihood that I actually confirm all of them i…”
Latka claims smart entrepreneurs intentionally make people root against them
“Any smart person in business, and I think I'm pretty smart, has to manage their personal life and know when you're trying to get people to root for you and when you want people to root against you. I want everybody rooting against me right now because the lowe…”
Andrew Warner reveals Latka made under $100,000 from the Heyo acquisition
“And you got less than a 100,000 dollars from it.”
Latka receives about four legal takedown letters per month for his podcast
“I get about four a month.”
Latka argues podcast hosts must prioritize audience learning over guest satisfaction
“Look, my job is not to make the guests happy. My job is to make the audience learn, right? And many times those things are not aligned.”