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Nov 14, 2016 · 23m · top-founders

Ep 478: Fans Pay $500K To Keep Favorite Shows, Will This Kill Netflix with CEO Ben Dobyns

Ben Dobbins · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Ben Dobyns, founder of Zombie Orpheus Entertainment, on how he built a profitable, creator-owned media company by releasing cinematic content for free under Creative Commons and funding production through data-driven Kickstarter campaigns and recurring Patreon support.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 45.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 3.1 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:000:27–3:40 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway and Audience Engagement Nathan presses Ben repeatedly on the exact contract terms and missing revenues owed by his former Hollywood distributor. Ben explains the fundamental flaws and obfuscation inherent in conventional independent film financing.3:40–8:11 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Monetizing Free Content: Creative Commons and Empowering Fandom Ben explains the psychology of empowering disenfranchised fandoms through Creative Commons licensing and direct PayPal support. Nathan breaks down the unit economics and conversion numbers from free viewers to paying backers.8:12–11:46 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Scaling Crowdfunding Revenue Across Multiple Independent Series Nathan actively looks up Ben's live campaign statistics on Kickstarter during the interview. Ben outlines his pre-funding gating strategy requiring 4,200 email signups prior to launching the campaign.11:46–14:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Production Budgeting, Campaign Spreadsheets, and BackerKit Upselling Nathan pulls specific team members' names directly from the Kickstarter page to challenge whether salaries and profits are covered in the campaign goal. Ben explains post-campaign upselling via BackerKit and budgeting for zero net profit.14:41–18:01 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Comparing Film Growth to SaaS and Rejecting Venture Capital Nathan pushes hard for the valuation, equity terms, and identity behind a rejected $500k venture capital offer, which Ben outright refuses to disclose. Nathan then challenges Ben on why he is not monetizing merchandise internally like Disney.18:01–20:26 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Building Recurring Creator Revenue via Patreon Support Segment consists primarily of Ben pitching his Patreon link followed by host mid-roll sponsor reads for HostGator and scheduling software.20:28–22:37 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Patreon Metrics Breakdown and Episode Resource Links Nathan summarizes Ben's exact monthly Patreon metrics ($5,600/month from 877 patrons) before completing the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and outro.0:27–3:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway and Audience Engagement Nathan presses Ben repeatedly on the exact contract terms and missing revenues owed by his former Hollywood distributor. Ben explains the fundamental flaws and obfuscation inherent in conventional independent film financing.3:40–8:11 · Guest teaching 5/10 Monetizing Free Content: Creative Commons and Empowering Fandom Ben explains the psychology of empowering disenfranchised fandoms through Creative Commons licensing and direct PayPal support. Nathan breaks down the unit economics and conversion numbers from free viewers to paying backers.8:12–11:46 · Guest teaching 4/10 Scaling Crowdfunding Revenue Across Multiple Independent Series Nathan actively looks up Ben's live campaign statistics on Kickstarter during the interview. Ben outlines his pre-funding gating strategy requiring 4,200 email signups prior to launching the campaign.11:46–14:40 · Guest teaching 4/10 Production Budgeting, Campaign Spreadsheets, and BackerKit Upselling Nathan pulls specific team members' names directly from the Kickstarter page to challenge whether salaries and profits are covered in the campaign goal. Ben explains post-campaign upselling via BackerKit and budgeting for zero net profit.14:41–18:01 · Guest teaching 4/10 Comparing Film Growth to SaaS and Rejecting Venture Capital Nathan pushes hard for the valuation, equity terms, and identity behind a rejected $500k venture capital offer, which Ben outright refuses to disclose. Nathan then challenges Ben on why he is not monetizing merchandise internally like Disney.18:01–20:26 · Guest teaching 0/10 Building Recurring Creator Revenue via Patreon Support Segment consists primarily of Ben pitching his Patreon link followed by host mid-roll sponsor reads for HostGator and scheduling software.20:28–22:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Patreon Metrics Breakdown and Episode Resource Links Nathan summarizes Ben's exact monthly Patreon metrics ($5,600/month from 877 patrons) before completing the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and outro.0:27–3:40 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway and Audience Engagement Nathan presses Ben repeatedly on the exact contract terms and missing revenues owed by his former Hollywood distributor. Ben explains the fundamental flaws and obfuscation inherent in conventional independent film financing.3:40–8:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Monetizing Free Content: Creative Commons and Empowering Fandom Ben explains the psychology of empowering disenfranchised fandoms through Creative Commons licensing and direct PayPal support. Nathan breaks down the unit economics and conversion numbers from free viewers to paying backers.8:12–11:46 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Scaling Crowdfunding Revenue Across Multiple Independent Series Nathan actively looks up Ben's live campaign statistics on Kickstarter during the interview. Ben outlines his pre-funding gating strategy requiring 4,200 email signups prior to launching the campaign.11:46–14:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Production Budgeting, Campaign Spreadsheets, and BackerKit Upselling Nathan pulls specific team members' names directly from the Kickstarter page to challenge whether salaries and profits are covered in the campaign goal. Ben explains post-campaign upselling via BackerKit and budgeting for zero net profit.14:41–18:01 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Comparing Film Growth to SaaS and Rejecting Venture Capital Nathan pushes hard for the valuation, equity terms, and identity behind a rejected $500k venture capital offer, which Ben outright refuses to disclose. Nathan then challenges Ben on why he is not monetizing merchandise internally like Disney.18:01–20:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Building Recurring Creator Revenue via Patreon Support Segment consists primarily of Ben pitching his Patreon link followed by host mid-roll sponsor reads for HostGator and scheduling software.20:28–22:37 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Patreon Metrics Breakdown and Episode Resource Links Nathan summarizes Ben's exact monthly Patreon metrics ($5,600/month from 877 patrons) before completing the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and outro.0:27–3:40 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Weekly Cash Giveaway and Audience Engagement Nathan presses Ben repeatedly on the exact contract terms and missing revenues owed by his former Hollywood distributor. Ben explains the fundamental flaws and obfuscation inherent in conventional independent film financing.3:40–8:11 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Monetizing Free Content: Creative Commons and Empowering Fandom Ben explains the psychology of empowering disenfranchised fandoms through Creative Commons licensing and direct PayPal support. Nathan breaks down the unit economics and conversion numbers from free viewers to paying backers.8:12–11:46 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Scaling Crowdfunding Revenue Across Multiple Independent Series Nathan actively looks up Ben's live campaign statistics on Kickstarter during the interview. Ben outlines his pre-funding gating strategy requiring 4,200 email signups prior to launching the campaign.11:46–14:40 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Production Budgeting, Campaign Spreadsheets, and BackerKit Upselling Nathan pulls specific team members' names directly from the Kickstarter page to challenge whether salaries and profits are covered in the campaign goal. Ben explains post-campaign upselling via BackerKit and budgeting for zero net profit.14:41–18:01 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Comparing Film Growth to SaaS and Rejecting Venture Capital Nathan pushes hard for the valuation, equity terms, and identity behind a rejected $500k venture capital offer, which Ben outright refuses to disclose. Nathan then challenges Ben on why he is not monetizing merchandise internally like Disney.18:01–20:26 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Building Recurring Creator Revenue via Patreon Support Segment consists primarily of Ben pitching his Patreon link followed by host mid-roll sponsor reads for HostGator and scheduling software.20:28–22:37 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Patreon Metrics Breakdown and Episode Resource Links Nathan summarizes Ben's exact monthly Patreon metrics ($5,600/month from 877 patrons) before completing the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and outro.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 72.7% · guest 27.3%0:00 · Nathan 72.7% · guest 27.3%3:00 · Nathan 6.7% · guest 93.3%3:00 · Nathan 6.7% · guest 93.3%6:00 · Nathan 32% · guest 68%6:00 · Nathan 32% · guest 68%9:00 · Nathan 29.7% · guest 70.3%9:00 · Nathan 29.7% · guest 70.3%12:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%12:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%15:00 · Nathan 29.7% · guest 70.3%15:00 · Nathan 29.7% · guest 70.3%18:00 · Nathan 91.8% · guest 8.2%18:00 · Nathan 91.8% · guest 8.2%21:00 · Nathan 78.6% · guest 21.4%21:00 · Nathan 78.6% · guest 21.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:53 Ben shuts down VC disclosure questions

Ben repeatedly stonewalls Nathan's rapid-fire questioning regarding the equity terms and identity of the VC investor, telling him flatly, 'I am not going to tell you.'

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 15:40 Nathan drills into venture capital offer valuation

Nathan refuses to accept Ben's vague mention of a half-million dollar VC offer and repeatedly demands exact valuation figures and percentage dilution.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:14 Ben breaks down the power of anti-network creator messaging

Ben educates Nathan on how empowering fans of previously canceled cult shows with Creative Commons licensing and no-studio promises drives organic direct funding.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:05 Nathan cross-examines Kickstarter team compensation

Nathan pulls up the campaign page in real time and names specific production personnel to test whether production budgets genuinely cover individual team salaries.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Weekly Cash Giveaway and Audience Engagement 4324 Nathan presses Ben repeatedly on the exact contract terms and missing revenues owed by his former Hollywood distributor. Ben explains the fundamental flaws and obfuscation inherent in conventional independent film financing.
Monetizing Free Content: Creative Commons and Empowering Fandom 5512 Ben explains the psychology of empowering disenfranchised fandoms through Creative Commons licensing and direct PayPal support. Nathan breaks down the unit economics and conversion numbers from free viewers to paying backers.
Scaling Crowdfunding Revenue Across Multiple Independent Series 6413 Nathan actively looks up Ben's live campaign statistics on Kickstarter during the interview. Ben outlines his pre-funding gating strategy requiring 4,200 email signups prior to launching the campaign.
Production Budgeting, Campaign Spreadsheets, and BackerKit Upselling 6414 Nathan pulls specific team members' names directly from the Kickstarter page to challenge whether salaries and profits are covered in the campaign goal. Ben explains post-campaign upselling via BackerKit and budgeting for zero net profit.
Comparing Film Growth to SaaS and Rejecting Venture Capital 7457 Nathan pushes hard for the valuation, equity terms, and identity behind a rejected $500k venture capital offer, which Ben outright refuses to disclose. Nathan then challenges Ben on why he is not monetizing merchandise internally like Disney.
Building Recurring Creator Revenue via Patreon Support 1000 Segment consists primarily of Ben pitching his Patreon link followed by host mid-roll sponsor reads for HostGator and scheduling software.
Patreon Metrics Breakdown and Episode Resource Links 4201 Nathan summarizes Ben's exact monthly Patreon metrics ($5,600/month from 877 patrons) before completing the rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire and outro.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zombie Orpheus gives films away for free and remains profitable annually
“He founded Zombie Orpheus Entertainment in 2010. He's been giving the company's films away for free ever since, since. He still does, and he ends each year In the black.”
Nathan Latka Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 1:36
Insight
Independent film funding relies on obfuscating investor losses
“The entire process of funding independent films is based on obfuscating the fact that independent films, you're going to lose your money if you invest in them.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 2:58
Insight
Digital media should act as free advertising to build a fanbase
“Each of these films, each of these episodes is its own advertisement for the next product, and we're no longer the business of selling units. We're in the business of building A sustaining fan base. Essentially using the internet for what it does best, making …”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 4:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
JourneyQuest recouped its entire season one budget via PayPal within one year
“So based purely on fan contributions via a PayPal button on our site, we made back our entire production budget in a year. We paid our investors back.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 6:01
Assertion Partly supported
Zombie Orpheus raised $112,000 on Kickstarter for JourneyQuest season two
“We then turned around on Kickstarter and funded season two raised a 112,000 dollars.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 6:18
Assertion Partly supported
Zombie Orpheus averages a strong $97 per backer on Kickstarter
“On the Kickstarter we tend to average 97 dollars per backer.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 7:56
Disclosure
Zombie Orpheus raised over $600,000 across three Kickstarter campaigns in 2016
“We've done three Kickstarters this year. We've raised over 600 grand on there.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 9:00
Insight
Strong day-one Kickstarter momentum drives organic backer conversion
“A really big day on Kickstarter then starts to attract more people, and they see it on Kickstarter, people who haven't heard of us begin to join on, and on Kickstarter and crowdfunding, success begets success.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 10:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Third parties raised millions using Dobyns' Kickstarter planning spreadsheet
“Third parties have used this spreadsheet to raise millions of dollars on Kickstarter.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 12:13
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zombie Orpheus raised an additional $45,000 through BackerKit post-campaign add-ons
“We were able to turn around on Backerkit and raise another 45,000 dollars Just from add-ons and upsells.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 13:37
Disclosure
Zombie Orpheus turned down a $500,000 venture capital investment
“I've turned down a lot of money in venture capital. Most recently half a million.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 15:29
Disclosure
Zombie Orpheus will release the Strowlers IP to allow commercial derivatives
“Our next big radical step For a new property that we're launching, Strowlers, we're actually going to release our world bible and our intellectual property to allow commercial derivatives under, again, a Creative Commons style license.”
Ben Dobbins Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 16:50
Assertion Open · timeframe Nov 2016
Zombie Orpheus generates $5,600 per month from 877 Patreon patrons
“Currently, they have 877 patrons, and they're making 5600 bucks a month from those patrons.”
Nathan Latka Nov 14, 2016 ▶ 20:34
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