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Dec 10, 2016 · 18m · top-founders

EP 504: MailPlaneApp 10,000+ Customers With BetterGmail with CEO Lars Steiger

Nathan Latka · 8m spoken Lars Steiger · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, Nathan Latka interviews Lars Steiger, the solo founder behind Mailplane, who reveals how he bootstrapped a desktop Gmail client to over 10,000 paying customers and built a profitable lifestyle business.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 58% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.9 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:000:28–3:37 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Subscriber Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces the company and immediately starts probing on core operational metrics. When Lars declines to disclose specific customer numbers, Nathan pushes back to demand at least a general ballpark range.3:37–5:49 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Trial Funnel, Monthly Influx, and Organic Growth Nathan explores the business model, clarifying whether Mailplane operates as SaaS or a one-time license purchase. Lars cooperatively details their 15-day trial, monthly trial volume, and organic distribution.5:49–8:15 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Solo Routine: Software Development and Customer Support Nathan asks for early revenue figures from 2007. Lars initially hesitates to share historical numbers, but Nathan prompts him for a range, leading Lars to share Ruben's early earnings.8:15–10:50 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Lifestyle Business Goals and Acquisition Considerations Nathan probes whether Lars would sell the business to competitors or accept a multimillion-dollar acquisition offer. Lars resists the premise, maintaining that freedom, customer fit, and lifestyle matter more than monetary exits.10:50–13:24 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Measuring Active Desktop Users Through Application Updates When Lars refuses to share active user stats, Nathan challenges him by asking if user numbers are low. Lars explains their technical metric based on update downloads, schooling Nathan on desktop software mechanics when Nathan questions whether users might update without running the app.13:26–15:51 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 HostGator Website Hosting Sponsorship and Discount Offer Nathan delivers a mid-roll sponsorship read and moves into the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, which Lars answers directly without friction.15:51–16:18 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Takeaways with Lars Steiger Monologue summary by Nathan wrapping up the episode and summarizing the key takeaways from Lars Steiger.0:28–3:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Subscriber Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces the company and immediately starts probing on core operational metrics. When Lars declines to disclose specific customer numbers, Nathan pushes back to demand at least a general ballpark range.3:37–5:49 · Guest teaching 2/10 Trial Funnel, Monthly Influx, and Organic Growth Nathan explores the business model, clarifying whether Mailplane operates as SaaS or a one-time license purchase. Lars cooperatively details their 15-day trial, monthly trial volume, and organic distribution.5:49–8:15 · Guest teaching 2/10 Solo Routine: Software Development and Customer Support Nathan asks for early revenue figures from 2007. Lars initially hesitates to share historical numbers, but Nathan prompts him for a range, leading Lars to share Ruben's early earnings.8:15–10:50 · Guest teaching 3/10 Lifestyle Business Goals and Acquisition Considerations Nathan probes whether Lars would sell the business to competitors or accept a multimillion-dollar acquisition offer. Lars resists the premise, maintaining that freedom, customer fit, and lifestyle matter more than monetary exits.10:50–13:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 Measuring Active Desktop Users Through Application Updates When Lars refuses to share active user stats, Nathan challenges him by asking if user numbers are low. Lars explains their technical metric based on update downloads, schooling Nathan on desktop software mechanics when Nathan questions whether users might update without running the app.13:26–15:51 · Guest teaching 1/10 HostGator Website Hosting Sponsorship and Discount Offer Nathan delivers a mid-roll sponsorship read and moves into the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, which Lars answers directly without friction.15:51–16:18 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Takeaways with Lars Steiger Monologue summary by Nathan wrapping up the episode and summarizing the key takeaways from Lars Steiger.0:28–3:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Subscriber Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces the company and immediately starts probing on core operational metrics. When Lars declines to disclose specific customer numbers, Nathan pushes back to demand at least a general ballpark range.3:37–5:49 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Trial Funnel, Monthly Influx, and Organic Growth Nathan explores the business model, clarifying whether Mailplane operates as SaaS or a one-time license purchase. Lars cooperatively details their 15-day trial, monthly trial volume, and organic distribution.5:49–8:15 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Solo Routine: Software Development and Customer Support Nathan asks for early revenue figures from 2007. Lars initially hesitates to share historical numbers, but Nathan prompts him for a range, leading Lars to share Ruben's early earnings.8:15–10:50 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Lifestyle Business Goals and Acquisition Considerations Nathan probes whether Lars would sell the business to competitors or accept a multimillion-dollar acquisition offer. Lars resists the premise, maintaining that freedom, customer fit, and lifestyle matter more than monetary exits.10:50–13:24 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Measuring Active Desktop Users Through Application Updates When Lars refuses to share active user stats, Nathan challenges him by asking if user numbers are low. Lars explains their technical metric based on update downloads, schooling Nathan on desktop software mechanics when Nathan questions whether users might update without running the app.13:26–15:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 HostGator Website Hosting Sponsorship and Discount Offer Nathan delivers a mid-roll sponsorship read and moves into the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, which Lars answers directly without friction.15:51–16:18 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Takeaways with Lars Steiger Monologue summary by Nathan wrapping up the episode and summarizing the key takeaways from Lars Steiger.0:28–3:37 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Subscriber Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces the company and immediately starts probing on core operational metrics. When Lars declines to disclose specific customer numbers, Nathan pushes back to demand at least a general ballpark range.3:37–5:49 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Trial Funnel, Monthly Influx, and Organic Growth Nathan explores the business model, clarifying whether Mailplane operates as SaaS or a one-time license purchase. Lars cooperatively details their 15-day trial, monthly trial volume, and organic distribution.5:49–8:15 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Solo Routine: Software Development and Customer Support Nathan asks for early revenue figures from 2007. Lars initially hesitates to share historical numbers, but Nathan prompts him for a range, leading Lars to share Ruben's early earnings.8:15–10:50 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Lifestyle Business Goals and Acquisition Considerations Nathan probes whether Lars would sell the business to competitors or accept a multimillion-dollar acquisition offer. Lars resists the premise, maintaining that freedom, customer fit, and lifestyle matter more than monetary exits.10:50–13:24 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Measuring Active Desktop Users Through Application Updates When Lars refuses to share active user stats, Nathan challenges him by asking if user numbers are low. Lars explains their technical metric based on update downloads, schooling Nathan on desktop software mechanics when Nathan questions whether users might update without running the app.13:26–15:51 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 HostGator Website Hosting Sponsorship and Discount Offer Nathan delivers a mid-roll sponsorship read and moves into the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, which Lars answers directly without friction.15:51–16:18 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Summary and Key Takeaways with Lars Steiger Monologue summary by Nathan wrapping up the episode and summarizing the key takeaways from Lars Steiger.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 73.1% · guest 26.9%0:00 · Nathan 73.1% · guest 26.9%3:00 · Nathan 40.2% · guest 59.8%3:00 · Nathan 40.2% · guest 59.8%6:00 · Nathan 33.9% · guest 66.1%6:00 · Nathan 33.9% · guest 66.1%9:00 · Nathan 42.7% · guest 57.3%9:00 · Nathan 42.7% · guest 57.3%12:00 · Nathan 81.9% · guest 18.1%12:00 · Nathan 81.9% · guest 18.1%15:00 · Nathan 78.2% · guest 21.8%15:00 · Nathan 78.2% · guest 21.8%18:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 0%18:00 · Nathan 0% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:04 Lars rejects Nathan's insinuation about low user numbers

When Nathan bluntly suggests that Lars refuses to disclose active user metrics because 'there are not a lot of people using it,' Lars pushes back, asserting they have plenty of users to keep them happy.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:00 Nathan directly challenges Lars on withholding usage data

Nathan refuses to let Lars dodge the active user metric and provocatively asks if poor adoption is the reason behind his refusal to disclose numbers.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:53 Lars educates Nathan on desktop application update mechanics

When Nathan asks whether a user downloading updates might still be inactive, Lars corrects him by explaining that desktop apps must be launched to trigger update downloads.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:56 Nathan analyzes the trade-offs of selling a lifestyle business

Nathan demonstrates business acumen by breaking down the math of a 5 million dollar acquisition versus lifestyle dividends to probe the founder's ultimate tipping point.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Weekly Contest Winner and Subscriber Giveaway Announcement 4224 Nathan introduces the company and immediately starts probing on core operational metrics. When Lars declines to disclose specific customer numbers, Nathan pushes back to demand at least a general ballpark range.
Trial Funnel, Monthly Influx, and Organic Growth 4213 Nathan explores the business model, clarifying whether Mailplane operates as SaaS or a one-time license purchase. Lars cooperatively details their 15-day trial, monthly trial volume, and organic distribution.
Solo Routine: Software Development and Customer Support 4224 Nathan asks for early revenue figures from 2007. Lars initially hesitates to share historical numbers, but Nathan prompts him for a range, leading Lars to share Ruben's early earnings.
Lifestyle Business Goals and Acquisition Considerations 5335 Nathan probes whether Lars would sell the business to competitors or accept a multimillion-dollar acquisition offer. Lars resists the premise, maintaining that freedom, customer fit, and lifestyle matter more than monetary exits.
Measuring Active Desktop Users Through Application Updates 5446 When Lars refuses to share active user stats, Nathan challenges him by asking if user numbers are low. Lars explains their technical metric based on update downloads, schooling Nathan on desktop software mechanics when Nathan questions whether users might update without running the app.
HostGator Website Hosting Sponsorship and Discount Offer 2111 Nathan delivers a mid-roll sponsorship read and moves into the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, which Lars answers directly without friction.
Episode Summary and Key Takeaways with Lars Steiger 0000 Monologue summary by Nathan wrapping up the episode and summarizing the key takeaways from Lars Steiger.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mailplane serves approximately 10,000 paying customers, says CEO Lars Steiger
“It's in the 10,000.”
Lars Steiger Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 3:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Mailplane receives approximately 5,000 free trial sign-ups every single month
“Per month it's about I think about 5000 about that.”
Lars Steiger Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 4:12
Disclosure
Mailplane resists SaaS trends by offering perpetual licenses instead of subscriptions
“It's just a one-time purchase. It's a regular app. You buy it and so you can use it as long as you want. And we provide updates and from time to time we sell a major update where you can get where you can get it for discount price.”
Lars Steiger Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 4:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lars Steiger runs the entire Mailplane business as a solo founder
“Actually, it's just me working on it. Yeah. And yeah, I run the whole business.”
Lars Steiger Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 5:43
Disclosure
Mailplane operates as a fully bootstrapped business with no outside capital
“It's all bootstrapped.”
Lars Steiger Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 6:30
Insight
Founders should maximize established products rather than launching new ones
“It's difficult to launch a new product. To find the audience and stuff like that. And so if you have a product in place, which is pretty established, then the best thing is to continue doing it and make the best out of it.”
Lars Steiger Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 9:01
Disclosure
Mailplane tracks active users by measuring minor software update downloads
“The most important number for us is the number of users who download updates. So if they, if you know, if we publish a minor update, then we see the numbers, the number of users who are downloading it. And that's an important number for us. So we know about ho…”
Lars Steiger Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 11:29
Prediction Didn’t hold up
Nathan Latka predicts he will take The Top Inbox public by 30
“I'm 27 now, and I have identified what I will build and take public. It's called thetopinbox.com. No questions asked. ... I bought the whole business. I will take it public.”
Nathan Latka Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 12:32
Opinion
Nathan Latka claims salespeople hate using Yesware, ToutApp, and Salesforce
“Salespeople hate using tools like Yesware and ToutApp and Salesforce because they don't have to log in and update their, you know, pipelines just for their bosses.”
Nathan Latka Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 12:45
Disclosure
Nathan Latka used email tracking to sell Heyo and buy Top Inbox
“In fact, I use this concept to sell my whole business. Heyo.com. I saw when investors opened, when buyers opened, when they replied, I followed up and I sold it. So I bought the whole business.”
Nathan Latka Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 13:06
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Founder Alex raised $125,000 for 5 percent equity at $2M valuation
“He just closed a round of a 125 K for five percent, meaning he hit a two million dollar valuation, but his revenue is so low, how is he gonna grow into that valuation?”
Nathan Latka Dec 10, 2016 ▶ 16:24
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