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Jan 19, 2017 · 24m · top-founders

EP 544: RevBoss $700k 2015 Revenue, Now $90k MRR to Help Customers Drive Revenue with CEO Eric Boggs

Eric Boggs · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Eric Boggs, founder and CEO of RevBoss, discussing his past startup experiences and how he scaled RevBoss to $90,000 in monthly recurring revenue through a strategic pivot to SaaS.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 38.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 2.5 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:000:28–5:16 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces Eric and probes into the shutdown of Argyle Social. When Eric initially claims he cannot contractually share the return on capital, Nathan immediately challenges him on the timing and whether it is public, prompting Eric to provide the 60-70 cents figure.5:16–9:07 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Career Foundations as Employee Number One at Bronto Eric shares his backstory as employee number one at Bronto and explains the inception of RevBoss. Nathan asks Eric to categorise his competitors, and Eric walks through the sales prospecting and automation landscape.9:08–12:05 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Pivoting from an Agency to a SaaS Revenue Model The conversation explores pivoting an agency into a software business. Eric explains cannibalizing high-touch service revenue for SaaS MRR, and Nathan actively validates and expands on the advantages regarding customer acquisition and gross margins.12:05–15:34 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 RevBoss Seed Funding, Valuation, and Team Structure Nathan drills down into the financials, calculating MRR from customer counts and pushing Eric to disclose the exact equity percentage given up in their $1.1 million seed round to derive the pre-money valuation.15:34–18:07 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Economics, Unit Metrics, and Sales Capacity Nathan runs unit economics calculations on ARPU, CAC, and LTV. When Eric mentions an 8% monthly churn baseline, Nathan notes that such high churn is lethal for pure SaaS unless balanced by high enterprise retention.18:08–22:29 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Mid-roll Sponsor: The Top Inbox Pitch Following mid-roll sponsor reads, Nathan moves through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, covering favorite books, tools, and personal reflections without conflict.0:28–5:16 · Guest teaching 2/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces Eric and probes into the shutdown of Argyle Social. When Eric initially claims he cannot contractually share the return on capital, Nathan immediately challenges him on the timing and whether it is public, prompting Eric to provide the 60-70 cents figure.5:16–9:07 · Guest teaching 3/10 Career Foundations as Employee Number One at Bronto Eric shares his backstory as employee number one at Bronto and explains the inception of RevBoss. Nathan asks Eric to categorise his competitors, and Eric walks through the sales prospecting and automation landscape.9:08–12:05 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pivoting from an Agency to a SaaS Revenue Model The conversation explores pivoting an agency into a software business. Eric explains cannibalizing high-touch service revenue for SaaS MRR, and Nathan actively validates and expands on the advantages regarding customer acquisition and gross margins.12:05–15:34 · Guest teaching 3/10 RevBoss Seed Funding, Valuation, and Team Structure Nathan drills down into the financials, calculating MRR from customer counts and pushing Eric to disclose the exact equity percentage given up in their $1.1 million seed round to derive the pre-money valuation.15:34–18:07 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Economics, Unit Metrics, and Sales Capacity Nathan runs unit economics calculations on ARPU, CAC, and LTV. When Eric mentions an 8% monthly churn baseline, Nathan notes that such high churn is lethal for pure SaaS unless balanced by high enterprise retention.18:08–22:29 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mid-roll Sponsor: The Top Inbox Pitch Following mid-roll sponsor reads, Nathan moves through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, covering favorite books, tools, and personal reflections without conflict.0:28–5:16 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces Eric and probes into the shutdown of Argyle Social. When Eric initially claims he cannot contractually share the return on capital, Nathan immediately challenges him on the timing and whether it is public, prompting Eric to provide the 60-70 cents figure.5:16–9:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Career Foundations as Employee Number One at Bronto Eric shares his backstory as employee number one at Bronto and explains the inception of RevBoss. Nathan asks Eric to categorise his competitors, and Eric walks through the sales prospecting and automation landscape.9:08–12:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pivoting from an Agency to a SaaS Revenue Model The conversation explores pivoting an agency into a software business. Eric explains cannibalizing high-touch service revenue for SaaS MRR, and Nathan actively validates and expands on the advantages regarding customer acquisition and gross margins.12:05–15:34 · Guest disagreement 2/10 RevBoss Seed Funding, Valuation, and Team Structure Nathan drills down into the financials, calculating MRR from customer counts and pushing Eric to disclose the exact equity percentage given up in their $1.1 million seed round to derive the pre-money valuation.15:34–18:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Economics, Unit Metrics, and Sales Capacity Nathan runs unit economics calculations on ARPU, CAC, and LTV. When Eric mentions an 8% monthly churn baseline, Nathan notes that such high churn is lethal for pure SaaS unless balanced by high enterprise retention.18:08–22:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Mid-roll Sponsor: The Top Inbox Pitch Following mid-roll sponsor reads, Nathan moves through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, covering favorite books, tools, and personal reflections without conflict.0:28–5:16 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Weekly Contest Winner and Giveaway Announcement Nathan introduces Eric and probes into the shutdown of Argyle Social. When Eric initially claims he cannot contractually share the return on capital, Nathan immediately challenges him on the timing and whether it is public, prompting Eric to provide the 60-70 cents figure.5:16–9:07 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Career Foundations as Employee Number One at Bronto Eric shares his backstory as employee number one at Bronto and explains the inception of RevBoss. Nathan asks Eric to categorise his competitors, and Eric walks through the sales prospecting and automation landscape.9:08–12:05 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Pivoting from an Agency to a SaaS Revenue Model The conversation explores pivoting an agency into a software business. Eric explains cannibalizing high-touch service revenue for SaaS MRR, and Nathan actively validates and expands on the advantages regarding customer acquisition and gross margins.12:05–15:34 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 RevBoss Seed Funding, Valuation, and Team Structure Nathan drills down into the financials, calculating MRR from customer counts and pushing Eric to disclose the exact equity percentage given up in their $1.1 million seed round to derive the pre-money valuation.15:34–18:07 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Economics, Unit Metrics, and Sales Capacity Nathan runs unit economics calculations on ARPU, CAC, and LTV. When Eric mentions an 8% monthly churn baseline, Nathan notes that such high churn is lethal for pure SaaS unless balanced by high enterprise retention.18:08–22:29 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Mid-roll Sponsor: The Top Inbox Pitch Following mid-roll sponsor reads, Nathan moves through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, covering favorite books, tools, and personal reflections without conflict.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 74.9% · guest 25.1%0:00 · Nathan 74.9% · guest 25.1%3:00 · Nathan 23% · guest 77%3:00 · Nathan 23% · guest 77%6:00 · Nathan 8.1% · guest 91.9%6:00 · Nathan 8.1% · guest 91.9%9:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%9:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%12:00 · Nathan 24.5% · guest 75.5%12:00 · Nathan 24.5% · guest 75.5%15:00 · Nathan 28.2% · guest 71.8%15:00 · Nathan 28.2% · guest 71.8%18:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%18:00 · Nathan 65.4% · guest 34.6%21:00 · Nathan 59.3% · guest 40.7%21:00 · Nathan 59.3% · guest 40.7%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 3:23 Eric's initial refusal to share transaction specifics

When Nathan asks what percentage investors recouped from Argyle Social, Eric initially puts up a guard citing contractual obligations before conceding and sharing the estimate.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:31 Nathan pressing on valuation and dilution metrics

After Eric dances around the leverage from his background, Nathan explicitly restates the question to force a clear answer on the exact percentage of equity sold.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:12 Eric explains the counterintuitive math of SaaS cannibalization

Eric educates Nathan on the operational reality of happily swapping a $3,000/month agency customer for a $1,000/month SaaS customer to build enterprise value.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 17:31 Nathan breaks down SaaS churn mechanics

Nathan demonstrates SaaS expertise by pointing out how an 8% monthly churn rate is unsustainable for software companies unless offset by white-glove onboarding.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Weekly Contest Winner and Giveaway Announcement 4224 Nathan introduces Eric and probes into the shutdown of Argyle Social. When Eric initially claims he cannot contractually share the return on capital, Nathan immediately challenges him on the timing and whether it is public, prompting Eric to provide the 60-70 cents figure.
Career Foundations as Employee Number One at Bronto 4312 Eric shares his backstory as employee number one at Bronto and explains the inception of RevBoss. Nathan asks Eric to categorise his competitors, and Eric walks through the sales prospecting and automation landscape.
Pivoting from an Agency to a SaaS Revenue Model 6312 The conversation explores pivoting an agency into a software business. Eric explains cannibalizing high-touch service revenue for SaaS MRR, and Nathan actively validates and expands on the advantages regarding customer acquisition and gross margins.
RevBoss Seed Funding, Valuation, and Team Structure 6325 Nathan drills down into the financials, calculating MRR from customer counts and pushing Eric to disclose the exact equity percentage given up in their $1.1 million seed round to derive the pre-money valuation.
Customer Economics, Unit Metrics, and Sales Capacity 6314 Nathan runs unit economics calculations on ARPU, CAC, and LTV. When Eric mentions an 8% monthly churn baseline, Nathan notes that such high churn is lethal for pure SaaS unless balanced by high enterprise retention.
Mid-roll Sponsor: The Top Inbox Pitch 2111 Following mid-roll sponsor reads, Nathan moves through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions, covering favorite books, tools, and personal reflections without conflict.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Supported
Boggs: Argyle Social raised only $1.6 million
“We'd only raised 1.6.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 2:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Boggs: Argyle Social returned 60 to 70 cents on the dollar
“I mean, it was probably somewhere between 60 and 70 cents on the dollar.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 3:39
Opinion
Boggs: Outreach and SalesLoft lead pure-play sales prospecting software
“I think on the like pure play sales prospecting software, sales loft and outreach, probably outreach than sales loft are the sort of clear leaders”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 8:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Boggs: RevBoss serves 50 to 60 combined services and product customers
“So we built the business as services, probably serving around 50 or 60 services plus product customers right now.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 9:26
Insight
Boggs: Converting a services business to SaaS is harder than growing it
“Turns out building a services business is pretty easy. Growing a services business is really, really hard. And then turning that services business into a SaaS business is even harder.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 9:46
Insight
Boggs: $1,000 in recurring SaaS revenue beats $3,000 in services revenue
“That a thousand dollars in recurring SaaS revenue is actually a lot more valuable than the 3000 dollars in services revenue”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 10:38
Disclosure
Boggs: RevBoss raised a $1.1M equity seed round for software development
“We raised a seed round a year ago. We raised 1.1 million dollars and almost all of that has been plowed into software development and.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 12:39
Disclosure
Boggs: RevBoss sold 20% to 25% equity in its $1.1M seed round
“I think it ended up being like 20%, somewhere between 20 and 25%.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 13:45
Insight
Boggs: Early-stage deal terms matter far more than headline valuation
“Yeah, and I think the lesson I learned from Argyle is that the price doesn't really matter all that much. I mean, it matters, right? You don't want to sell 50% of your company that early, but there's sort of a range for what's reasonable. As long as you can ge…”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 13:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Boggs: RevBoss has a customer acquisition cost around $2,000
“Like two K.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 16:28
Disclosure
Boggs: RevBoss struggles with outbound sales despite selling outbound tools
“And, you know, oddly enough, as you know, a company that enables other companies to build pipeline without bound sales, we have really sucked at outbound sales.”
Eric Boggs Jan 19, 2017 ▶ 16:38
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