May 22, 2017 · 29m · top-founders
667: PayU Passes $180M Revenue, New Risk Assesment Product To Grow Financial Services Arm with Ex PayPal CEO Laurent Le Moal
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of "The Top," host Nathan Latka interviews PayU CEO Laurent Le Moal to examine how the fintech giant processes eighteen billion dollars in transaction volume while expanding beyond payment gateways into alternative data credit underwriting across emerging markets.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Nathan as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 2.9
speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:08 European team distinction pushback
Laurent directly corrects Nathan's assumption about being employee number four, clarifying it applied only to the European division rather than global PayPal.
Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 18:07 Pressing on credit revenue definitionNathan interrupts to admit confusion and aggressively presses Laurent to define what '10% of revenues from credit activity' actually means operationally.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:00 Clarifying corporate venture investing versus fundraisingLaurent corrects Nathan's mistaken assertion that PayU had raised small rounds, explaining Naspers' corporate structure and PayU's role as a strategic fintech investor in startups like Luno and ZestMoney.
Nathan holds their own ▶ 21:37 Backwards math on PayU revenue scaleNathan calculates PayU's estimated revenue by multiplying the $18 billion processing volume by the 100-300 basis point take rate to estimate $180M to $500M+ in top-line revenue, which Laurent affirms.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Nathan as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Nathan pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Introducing Guest Laurent Le Moal, CEO of PayU | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Nathan introduces Laurent Le Moal and lays out PayU's business context clearly, asking targeted questions about PayU's revenue model and breakdown between payments processing and financial services. Laurent smoothly explains their model and future strategy where processing might become free. | |
| Alternative Data and Underwriting Credit in Emerging Markets | 5 | 3 | 1 | 3 | Nathan connects PayU's credit ambitions to past guest Monish Anand of Data Science, asking how PayU approaches thin-file underwriting in emerging markets like India. Laurent walks through his startup career, VC lessons, and what counts as dangerous burn rate in emerging markets. | |
| PayPal Europe Origins and Dual-Sided Payment Flywheels | 4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Nathan drills into Laurent's early days at PayPal and clarifies whether he was employee number four globally or just in Europe. Laurent educates Nathan on payments as a two-sided network relying on the eBay flywheel. | |
| Joining Naspers, Fintech Investing, and PayU Strategic Mission | 5 | 3 | 2 | 4 | Nathan asks about funding rounds, confusing PayU's venture investments (Luno, ZestMoney) with PayU raising equity capital. Laurent politely corrects him, explaining PayU's parent Naspers and how PayU acts as both operator and corporate VC. | |
| PayU Financial Scale: Eighteen Billion Volume and Global Headcount | 6 | 2 | 1 | 4 | Nathan probes PayU's exact financial volume ($18B) and take rates (100-300 bps), pressing Laurent to clarify what he means by 10% credit revenue. Laurent explains the economics of loan origination and interest yield versus payments volume. | |
| Combating Financial Fraud, KYC, and Emerging Market Regulations | 6 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Nathan references the Russian 'Laundromat' money-laundering scandal and asks how PayU mitigates high-level fraud, leading Laurent to explain regulatory compliance, AML, and KYC hurdles in emerging markets before showcasing their Indian product LazyPay. | |
| Famous Five: Executive Habits, Tools, and Life Philosophy | 4 | 1 | 1 | 2 | Nathan executes his rapid-fire Famous Five round, teasing Laurent about his use of The Top Inbox and summarizing Laurent's extensive career and PayU's metrics effectively. |
Statements from this episode (13)
Le Moal: Payments remain fundamentally local and regional, not truly global
“I believe actually that payments are extremely local and regional.”
Le Moal: Payment processing could become free in a few years
“All the rest, you could really imagine that in a few years, the payment itself, the processing itself will be free.”
Le Moal: Traditional bank credit scoring only serves the top 1%
“The banks have done this, you know, but all using the same credit scoring model and basically addressing the one percent of the population that actually do not really need credit.”
Le Moal: 90% of Indians Can Repay Debt but Lack Credit Files
“If you go now to India and you want to address really the 90% of the population they do have the means to repay their debt. They do want, of course, you know, to buy stuff online, so consumption is very high, but they have what we call a very thin file.”
Le Moal: Mobile Data Is the Largest Source for Alternative Credit Scoring
“So you need really to have all the credit scoring and the ability to extract data from all over, you know, the different sources. The biggest one actually being your mobile data.”
Le Moal: Some Indian startups burn $200M per year
“We are talking, you know, a couple of hundred millions a year.”
Le Moal: PayPal's entire European team was three people in 2004
“PayPal literally, you know, in 2004, it was three people in a corner office in Richmond south of London, and they were looking for someone to do a market study about the potential for PayPal outside of eBay.”
Le Moal: PayU processed around $18B in payment volume in 2016
“Yeah, so actually we finished this year, right in time, 2060 16, yeah around 18 billion dollars of payments, volumes.”
Le Moal: PayU is growing around 70% annually in India
“However, we see a really big push in India where the growth rates we have right now are around the 70% mark.”
Le Moal: Consumer credit will drive 10% of PayU revenue in 2-3 years
“10% of the total revenues will come purely just from the credit activity. That's what you get basically, you know, around 24 months, 36 months from inception.”
Le Moal: PayU takes a 100 to 300 basis point cut on payments
“For the payments, it varies. Basically you would look from 100 to 300 basis point.”
Le Moal: Regulatory compliance is the biggest cost for fintech startups
“That's the big cost actually of fintech for any startup.”
Le Moal: Merchants view buy-now-pay-later as marketing, not payment fees
“When you talk to merchants about this, they see it as a marketing. Yes. For them, it's like, oh, it's not the payments. You know, we are not talking about basis point of cost. For them, it's the marketing instrument to sell more.”