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Aug 10, 2017 · 19m · top-founders

747: This This Six Figure Poker Player Quit to Launch Agency

Derek Haney · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this interview, host Nathan Latka speaks with Volpine Interactive CEO Derek Haney about leaving a lucrative career in professional poker to bootstrap a digital marketing agency and scale it toward one hundred thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.3 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:001:06–4:42 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Transitioning from Professional Poker to Digital Marketing Nathan inquires about Derek's poker career and why he left mid-six-figure earnings. Derek provides a detailed breakdown of poker economics, mentor coaching, and the mathematical ceiling of competing against top players.4:42–7:47 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Bootstrapping the Agency and Investing in Business Education Nathan presses Derek on not paying himself initially and spending $25,000 on conferences, sarcastically mocking the idea of learning over generating revenue. Derek defends his steep learning curve while acknowledging his initial naivety.7:48–10:20 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Managing Personal Expenses and Lifestyle Adjustments Nathan challenges Derek to cut personal expenses instead of raising his salary, directly calling using a kid as a financial excuse 'bullshit'. Derek snaps back defensively before breaking down his exact monthly child care and lifestyle reduction costs.10:20–15:32 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Volpine Interactive's Agency Model, Revenue, and Client Retention Nathan drills Derek on Volpine Interactive's metrics and agency structure, demonstrating expertise by pointing out why a 3-month contract retainer exposes the agency to premature cancellations before results land. Derek agrees with Nathan's business logic.15:34–19:10 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Promotional Break: GetLatka Database and Course Creation Platform The segment includes sponsor reads followed by the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, proceeding cooperatively without pushback.19:10–19:50 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Recap and Previous Show Highlights A brief host monologue summarizing Derek's revenue, customer count, and targets before teasing the next episode. All scores are zero per monologue rules.1:06–4:42 · Guest teaching 5/10 Transitioning from Professional Poker to Digital Marketing Nathan inquires about Derek's poker career and why he left mid-six-figure earnings. Derek provides a detailed breakdown of poker economics, mentor coaching, and the mathematical ceiling of competing against top players.4:42–7:47 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapping the Agency and Investing in Business Education Nathan presses Derek on not paying himself initially and spending $25,000 on conferences, sarcastically mocking the idea of learning over generating revenue. Derek defends his steep learning curve while acknowledging his initial naivety.7:48–10:20 · Guest teaching 3/10 Managing Personal Expenses and Lifestyle Adjustments Nathan challenges Derek to cut personal expenses instead of raising his salary, directly calling using a kid as a financial excuse 'bullshit'. Derek snaps back defensively before breaking down his exact monthly child care and lifestyle reduction costs.10:20–15:32 · Guest teaching 2/10 Volpine Interactive's Agency Model, Revenue, and Client Retention Nathan drills Derek on Volpine Interactive's metrics and agency structure, demonstrating expertise by pointing out why a 3-month contract retainer exposes the agency to premature cancellations before results land. Derek agrees with Nathan's business logic.15:34–19:10 · Guest teaching 1/10 Promotional Break: GetLatka Database and Course Creation Platform The segment includes sponsor reads followed by the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, proceeding cooperatively without pushback.19:10–19:50 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Recap and Previous Show Highlights A brief host monologue summarizing Derek's revenue, customer count, and targets before teasing the next episode. All scores are zero per monologue rules.1:06–4:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Transitioning from Professional Poker to Digital Marketing Nathan inquires about Derek's poker career and why he left mid-six-figure earnings. Derek provides a detailed breakdown of poker economics, mentor coaching, and the mathematical ceiling of competing against top players.4:42–7:47 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Bootstrapping the Agency and Investing in Business Education Nathan presses Derek on not paying himself initially and spending $25,000 on conferences, sarcastically mocking the idea of learning over generating revenue. Derek defends his steep learning curve while acknowledging his initial naivety.7:48–10:20 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Managing Personal Expenses and Lifestyle Adjustments Nathan challenges Derek to cut personal expenses instead of raising his salary, directly calling using a kid as a financial excuse 'bullshit'. Derek snaps back defensively before breaking down his exact monthly child care and lifestyle reduction costs.10:20–15:32 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Volpine Interactive's Agency Model, Revenue, and Client Retention Nathan drills Derek on Volpine Interactive's metrics and agency structure, demonstrating expertise by pointing out why a 3-month contract retainer exposes the agency to premature cancellations before results land. Derek agrees with Nathan's business logic.15:34–19:10 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promotional Break: GetLatka Database and Course Creation Platform The segment includes sponsor reads followed by the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, proceeding cooperatively without pushback.19:10–19:50 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Recap and Previous Show Highlights A brief host monologue summarizing Derek's revenue, customer count, and targets before teasing the next episode. All scores are zero per monologue rules.1:06–4:42 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Transitioning from Professional Poker to Digital Marketing Nathan inquires about Derek's poker career and why he left mid-six-figure earnings. Derek provides a detailed breakdown of poker economics, mentor coaching, and the mathematical ceiling of competing against top players.4:42–7:47 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Bootstrapping the Agency and Investing in Business Education Nathan presses Derek on not paying himself initially and spending $25,000 on conferences, sarcastically mocking the idea of learning over generating revenue. Derek defends his steep learning curve while acknowledging his initial naivety.7:48–10:20 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Managing Personal Expenses and Lifestyle Adjustments Nathan challenges Derek to cut personal expenses instead of raising his salary, directly calling using a kid as a financial excuse 'bullshit'. Derek snaps back defensively before breaking down his exact monthly child care and lifestyle reduction costs.10:20–15:32 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Volpine Interactive's Agency Model, Revenue, and Client Retention Nathan drills Derek on Volpine Interactive's metrics and agency structure, demonstrating expertise by pointing out why a 3-month contract retainer exposes the agency to premature cancellations before results land. Derek agrees with Nathan's business logic.15:34–19:10 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Promotional Break: GetLatka Database and Course Creation Platform The segment includes sponsor reads followed by the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, proceeding cooperatively without pushback.19:10–19:50 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Recap and Previous Show Highlights A brief host monologue summarizing Derek's revenue, customer count, and targets before teasing the next episode. All scores are zero per monologue rules.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 61.9% · guest 38.1%0:00 · Nathan 61.9% · guest 38.1%3:00 · Nathan 7.1% · guest 92.9%3:00 · Nathan 7.1% · guest 92.9%6:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%6:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%9:00 · Nathan 14.4% · guest 85.6%9:00 · Nathan 14.4% · guest 85.6%12:00 · Nathan 25.8% · guest 74.2%12:00 · Nathan 25.8% · guest 74.2%15:00 · Nathan 71.5% · guest 28.5%15:00 · Nathan 71.5% · guest 28.5%18:00 · Nathan 50.8% · guest 49.2%18:00 · Nathan 50.8% · guest 49.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:22 Derek snaps back over child care expenses

When Nathan tells Derek to cut his personal spending, Derek immediately pushes back with the sharp counter-question, 'Do you want to take care of my son?'

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:25 Nathan refuses the kid excuse

Nathan aggressively rejects Derek's reasoning, calling using children as financial excuses 'bullshit' and demanding hard numbers on Derek's actual costs.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:54 Derek explains the mathematical reality of professional poker

Derek explains the difference between chess and poker, detailing combinatorics, hidden information, and why poker payouts follow a brutal logarithmic scale.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:37 Nathan critiques agency contract duration

Nathan demonstrates operational agency knowledge by explaining that clients cancel 3-month retainers right before social marketing results hit, forcing Derek to concede the point.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Transitioning from Professional Poker to Digital Marketing 3511 Nathan inquires about Derek's poker career and why he left mid-six-figure earnings. Derek provides a detailed breakdown of poker economics, mentor coaching, and the mathematical ceiling of competing against top players.
Bootstrapping the Agency and Investing in Business Education 5236 Nathan presses Derek on not paying himself initially and spending $25,000 on conferences, sarcastically mocking the idea of learning over generating revenue. Derek defends his steep learning curve while acknowledging his initial naivety.
Managing Personal Expenses and Lifestyle Adjustments 4357 Nathan challenges Derek to cut personal expenses instead of raising his salary, directly calling using a kid as a financial excuse 'bullshit'. Derek snaps back defensively before breaking down his exact monthly child care and lifestyle reduction costs.
Volpine Interactive's Agency Model, Revenue, and Client Retention 7226 Nathan drills Derek on Volpine Interactive's metrics and agency structure, demonstrating expertise by pointing out why a 3-month contract retainer exposes the agency to premature cancellations before results land. Derek agrees with Nathan's business logic.
Promotional Break: GetLatka Database and Course Creation Platform 1100 The segment includes sponsor reads followed by the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire, proceeding cooperatively without pushback.
Episode Recap and Previous Show Highlights 0000 A brief host monologue summarizing Derek's revenue, customer count, and targets before teasing the next episode. All scores are zero per monologue rules.

Statements from this episode (8)

Disclosure
Haney: Made mid-six figures working three hours daily playing poker
“I was making mid-six figures and working three hours a day.”
Derek Haney Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 2:17
Insight
Haney: The best poker player captures exponentially more winnings than competitors
“The best player at the poker table is the one that makes all the money. The second, so it's like, it's a logarithmic scale. It's like, the best player makes, you know, twice as much as the second best player who makes twice as much as the third best player, an…”
Derek Haney Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 3:53
Disclosure
Haney funded Volpine Interactive with $150K from poker savings and an investor
“2015, we got funding 50 K from a poker friend of mine, combined that with my poker bankroll, which I was still using to play poker, and so then I kind of withdrew the bankroll from poker. It was a little over a hundred K. Okay. And so, so basically a 150 or so…”
Derek Haney Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 5:28
Disclosure
Haney blew half of his $50K initial funding on business conferences
“I literally spent half of that 50,000 on going to conferences and events around the United States”
Derek Haney Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 6:34
Disclosure
Haney: Volpine co-founders currently take $5,000 monthly combined salary
“My wife and I are co-founders in this, and we pay each of ourselves, 2500 dollars a month, so right now we make five pay a month.”
Derek Haney Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 7:18
Opinion
Latka: Having children is a 'bullshit' excuse to avoid entrepreneurial risk
“I meet so many parents with kids, they use their children as excuses of why, like, I mean, there is a limit, but it's such an easy excuse for parents. They say, well, Nathan, I can't take the risks you took because I have a kid. Bullshit. Like, you can figure …”
Nathan Latka Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 8:28
Disclosure
Haney will shut down Volpine if it misses $50K MRR by December
“If we don't hit 50 K monthly recurring revenue by December, we're going to stop doing what we're doing.”
Derek Haney Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 12:06
Disclosure
Derek Haney: Volpine reached $15K MRR and is closing deals toward $30K
“Last month was 15 K, and this month we're really close to closing two or three more deals, which should put us really close to 30 K.”
Derek Haney Aug 10, 2017 ▶ 12:15
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