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Sep 22, 2017 · 20m · top-founders

790: Book in a Box Passes $11.3m in Revenue, 500+ Authors

JT McCormick · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews JT McCormick, CEO of Book in a Box, exploring how the company bootstrapped its way to $11.3 million in revenue and 500+ authors by revolutionizing professional book publishing.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 47.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 1.7 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:000:49–5:05 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 GetLatka.com Database Promotion Latka shares detailed mechanics of how individuals spend six figures to game the New York Times bestseller list. McCormick agrees with the premise while offering perspective on the value of actual content versus vanity metrics.5:05–7:57 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Book in a Box Model and Pricing McCormick explains the interview-based publishing process and standard $25k pricing. Latka connects the discussion to his own book deal experience and jokes about their Austin office environment.7:58–11:47 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Bootstrapping, Pricing Evolution, and $11.3M Revenue Latka calculates cumulative revenue and repeatedly pushes McCormick to confirm the exact figure after McCormick digresses into pricing tiers and unicorn culture. McCormick eventually gives the exact $11.3M figure.11:49–14:46 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Scaling Operations and Freelancer Management Latka probes the operational unit economics and predictable cost structures for managing 100+ freelancers. McCormick explains their flat-fee model and emphasis on prompt payments over word-count metrics.14:46–17:33 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Expanding Into Thought Leader Media Latka questions why Thought Leader Media uses complex tiered pricing ($15k-$75k) right after Book in a Box simplified its core pricing. McCormick clarifies that media services require customized scopes.17:34–20:03 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Break: TheTopInbox Acquisition Segment begins with Latka's acquisition ad read before moving into standard Famous Five questions where McCormick reflects on work ethic versus formal education.0:49–5:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 GetLatka.com Database Promotion Latka shares detailed mechanics of how individuals spend six figures to game the New York Times bestseller list. McCormick agrees with the premise while offering perspective on the value of actual content versus vanity metrics.5:05–7:57 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Book in a Box Model and Pricing McCormick explains the interview-based publishing process and standard $25k pricing. Latka connects the discussion to his own book deal experience and jokes about their Austin office environment.7:58–11:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Bootstrapping, Pricing Evolution, and $11.3M Revenue Latka calculates cumulative revenue and repeatedly pushes McCormick to confirm the exact figure after McCormick digresses into pricing tiers and unicorn culture. McCormick eventually gives the exact $11.3M figure.11:49–14:46 · Guest teaching 4/10 Scaling Operations and Freelancer Management Latka probes the operational unit economics and predictable cost structures for managing 100+ freelancers. McCormick explains their flat-fee model and emphasis on prompt payments over word-count metrics.14:46–17:33 · Guest teaching 2/10 Expanding Into Thought Leader Media Latka questions why Thought Leader Media uses complex tiered pricing ($15k-$75k) right after Book in a Box simplified its core pricing. McCormick clarifies that media services require customized scopes.17:34–20:03 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sponsor Break: TheTopInbox Acquisition Segment begins with Latka's acquisition ad read before moving into standard Famous Five questions where McCormick reflects on work ethic versus formal education.0:49–5:05 · Guest disagreement 2/10 GetLatka.com Database Promotion Latka shares detailed mechanics of how individuals spend six figures to game the New York Times bestseller list. McCormick agrees with the premise while offering perspective on the value of actual content versus vanity metrics.5:05–7:57 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Book in a Box Model and Pricing McCormick explains the interview-based publishing process and standard $25k pricing. Latka connects the discussion to his own book deal experience and jokes about their Austin office environment.7:58–11:47 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Bootstrapping, Pricing Evolution, and $11.3M Revenue Latka calculates cumulative revenue and repeatedly pushes McCormick to confirm the exact figure after McCormick digresses into pricing tiers and unicorn culture. McCormick eventually gives the exact $11.3M figure.11:49–14:46 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Scaling Operations and Freelancer Management Latka probes the operational unit economics and predictable cost structures for managing 100+ freelancers. McCormick explains their flat-fee model and emphasis on prompt payments over word-count metrics.14:46–17:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Expanding Into Thought Leader Media Latka questions why Thought Leader Media uses complex tiered pricing ($15k-$75k) right after Book in a Box simplified its core pricing. McCormick clarifies that media services require customized scopes.17:34–20:03 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Break: TheTopInbox Acquisition Segment begins with Latka's acquisition ad read before moving into standard Famous Five questions where McCormick reflects on work ethic versus formal education.0:49–5:05 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 GetLatka.com Database Promotion Latka shares detailed mechanics of how individuals spend six figures to game the New York Times bestseller list. McCormick agrees with the premise while offering perspective on the value of actual content versus vanity metrics.5:05–7:57 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Book in a Box Model and Pricing McCormick explains the interview-based publishing process and standard $25k pricing. Latka connects the discussion to his own book deal experience and jokes about their Austin office environment.7:58–11:47 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Bootstrapping, Pricing Evolution, and $11.3M Revenue Latka calculates cumulative revenue and repeatedly pushes McCormick to confirm the exact figure after McCormick digresses into pricing tiers and unicorn culture. McCormick eventually gives the exact $11.3M figure.11:49–14:46 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Scaling Operations and Freelancer Management Latka probes the operational unit economics and predictable cost structures for managing 100+ freelancers. McCormick explains their flat-fee model and emphasis on prompt payments over word-count metrics.14:46–17:33 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Expanding Into Thought Leader Media Latka questions why Thought Leader Media uses complex tiered pricing ($15k-$75k) right after Book in a Box simplified its core pricing. McCormick clarifies that media services require customized scopes.17:34–20:03 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Break: TheTopInbox Acquisition Segment begins with Latka's acquisition ad read before moving into standard Famous Five questions where McCormick reflects on work ethic versus formal education.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 83% · guest 17%0:00 · Nathan 83% · guest 17%3:00 · Nathan 38.9% · guest 61.1%3:00 · Nathan 38.9% · guest 61.1%6:00 · Nathan 46.8% · guest 53.2%6:00 · Nathan 46.8% · guest 53.2%9:00 · Nathan 19.5% · guest 80.5%9:00 · Nathan 19.5% · guest 80.5%12:00 · Nathan 35.9% · guest 64.1%12:00 · Nathan 35.9% · guest 64.1%15:00 · Nathan 35.7% · guest 64.3%15:00 · Nathan 35.7% · guest 64.3%18:00 · Nathan 72.5% · guest 27.5%18:00 · Nathan 72.5% · guest 27.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:57 McCormick rails against fake unicorn valuations

McCormick passionately rejects typical startup culture, calling billion-dollar valuations unproven bullshit while asserting Book in a Box's debt-free profitability.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:17 Latka calls out avoided revenue question

Latka directly stops the narrative to point out that McCormick dodged the cumulative revenue question, forcing him to state the exact number.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:39 McCormick breaks down tiered pricing psychology

McCormick explains how multiple pricing tiers led customers to default to the middle option, educating on why consolidating into a single $25k price point drove revenue growth.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 2:35 Latka explains bestseller list coordination campaigns

Latka showcases detailed insider understanding of publishing mechanics, detailing how bulk orders must be split across specific indie bookstores to manipulate bestseller algorithms.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
GetLatka.com Database Promotion 5223 Latka shares detailed mechanics of how individuals spend six figures to game the New York Times bestseller list. McCormick agrees with the premise while offering perspective on the value of actual content versus vanity metrics.
The Book in a Box Model and Pricing 4311 McCormick explains the interview-based publishing process and standard $25k pricing. Latka connects the discussion to his own book deal experience and jokes about their Austin office environment.
Bootstrapping, Pricing Evolution, and $11.3M Revenue 5436 Latka calculates cumulative revenue and repeatedly pushes McCormick to confirm the exact figure after McCormick digresses into pricing tiers and unicorn culture. McCormick eventually gives the exact $11.3M figure.
Scaling Operations and Freelancer Management 4424 Latka probes the operational unit economics and predictable cost structures for managing 100+ freelancers. McCormick explains their flat-fee model and emphasis on prompt payments over word-count metrics.
Expanding Into Thought Leader Media 4224 Latka questions why Thought Leader Media uses complex tiered pricing ($15k-$75k) right after Book in a Box simplified its core pricing. McCormick clarifies that media services require customized scopes.
Sponsor Break: TheTopInbox Acquisition 2100 Segment begins with Latka's acquisition ad read before moving into standard Famous Five questions where McCormick reflects on work ethic versus formal education.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Supported
McCormick: Anyone can buy their way onto a bestseller list
“Of course it is. You've got a lot of people out there who actually do it. So yeah, it's, as we've always said, you can buy anything. So yes.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 2:09
Opinion
Latka: Bestseller status creates massive ROI for keynote speakers
“The problem is that it's just not working like that, because they're able to put in their bios everywhere, on their keynote pages, blah, blah, blah, New York Times, Washington, Best Seller, and that one sentence adds So much value. It, 10 X covers up any negat…”
Nathan Latka Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 4:28
Disclosure
McCormick: Book in a Box charges $25,000 over five months
“So real simple, it's 25,005 thousand dollars a month for five months.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 6:42
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
McCormick: Book in a Box claims quality parity with Random House
“No, these books you can set on any shelf, and in fact, some of them are on the shelf at Barnes & Noble, and you would not know the difference if it was Random House or Book in a Box who published the book.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 6:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
McCormick: Book in a Box worked with over 500 authors
“We have worked now with over 500 authors.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 8:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
McCormick: Book in a Box is bootstrapped, debt-free, and highly profitable
“We as book in a box have no debt, no loans, no private equity, no VC money, and we are extremely profitable.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 9:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
McCormick: Book in a Box generated $11.3 million in cumulative revenue
“Actually, we're about, let's call it 11,000,003 is the exact number.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 11:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
McCormick: Book in a Box averages 25 to 30 new authors monthly
“We're averaging anywhere between 25 and 30 authored, new authors a month.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 12:06
Opinion
McCormick: The gig economy treats freelancers like migrant workers
“I have found that in the gig economy for freelancers, many of them are treated like migrant workers, and that's complete bullshit.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 14:32
Disclosure
McCormick: Thought Leader Media packages cost $15,000 to $75,000 annually
“We've got anything from 15,000 up to 75,000 a year for the thought leader package.”
JT McCormick Sep 22, 2017 ▶ 16:00
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