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Sep 25, 2017 · 20m · top-founders

793: Will This Funded Event Ticketing Company ICO?

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Sandy Khaund · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, Upgraded founder Sandy Khaund explains how his startup uses blockchain technology to eliminate fraudulent PDF ticket duplication, while discussing seed fundraising, pilot traction, and the deliberate decision to avoid speculative ICO hype.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 50.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.6 Nathan pushing back 3.4
05100:0010:0020:002:01–4:56 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Introducing Sandy Khaund and Upgraded's Blockchain Model Nathan introduces the company and asks how Upgraded generates revenue. Sandy provides a comprehensive breakdown of the double-spend ticketing problem and explains how tokenization, escrow, and data create a viable business model.4:56–10:25 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Early Traction, Team Dynamics, and Seed Financing Nathan presses Sandy to quantify his early revenue numbers and drill into convertible note financing terms. Sandy shares his 4 percent interest rate and 7 million cap, while Nathan questions the mechanics of non-dilutive ICO funding.10:26–13:25 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Navigating Regulatory Uncertainty and Strategic Timing Nathan cites historical business monopolies like Rockefeller's Standard Oil to argue for taking advantage of pre-regulatory market opportunities. Sandy agrees with the premise and shares the challenges of operating without established legal precedent.13:26–16:21 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Rejecting Acquisition Offers and Analyzing ICO Pitfalls Nathan repeatedly probes Sandy regarding a rejected buyout offer and potential acquisition figures. Nathan then references previous interviews about DAO security exploits to weigh the actual risks of running an ICO.16:23–19:41 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Nathan's Acquisition Strategy and TheTopInbox Promotion Following Nathan's promotional segment for TheTopInbox, the interview moves into standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering personal habits and educational pedigree.2:01–4:56 · Guest teaching 5/10 Introducing Sandy Khaund and Upgraded's Blockchain Model Nathan introduces the company and asks how Upgraded generates revenue. Sandy provides a comprehensive breakdown of the double-spend ticketing problem and explains how tokenization, escrow, and data create a viable business model.4:56–10:25 · Guest teaching 2/10 Early Traction, Team Dynamics, and Seed Financing Nathan presses Sandy to quantify his early revenue numbers and drill into convertible note financing terms. Sandy shares his 4 percent interest rate and 7 million cap, while Nathan questions the mechanics of non-dilutive ICO funding.10:26–13:25 · Guest teaching 3/10 Navigating Regulatory Uncertainty and Strategic Timing Nathan cites historical business monopolies like Rockefeller's Standard Oil to argue for taking advantage of pre-regulatory market opportunities. Sandy agrees with the premise and shares the challenges of operating without established legal precedent.13:26–16:21 · Guest teaching 2/10 Rejecting Acquisition Offers and Analyzing ICO Pitfalls Nathan repeatedly probes Sandy regarding a rejected buyout offer and potential acquisition figures. Nathan then references previous interviews about DAO security exploits to weigh the actual risks of running an ICO.16:23–19:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 Nathan's Acquisition Strategy and TheTopInbox Promotion Following Nathan's promotional segment for TheTopInbox, the interview moves into standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering personal habits and educational pedigree.2:01–4:56 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Sandy Khaund and Upgraded's Blockchain Model Nathan introduces the company and asks how Upgraded generates revenue. Sandy provides a comprehensive breakdown of the double-spend ticketing problem and explains how tokenization, escrow, and data create a viable business model.4:56–10:25 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Early Traction, Team Dynamics, and Seed Financing Nathan presses Sandy to quantify his early revenue numbers and drill into convertible note financing terms. Sandy shares his 4 percent interest rate and 7 million cap, while Nathan questions the mechanics of non-dilutive ICO funding.10:26–13:25 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Navigating Regulatory Uncertainty and Strategic Timing Nathan cites historical business monopolies like Rockefeller's Standard Oil to argue for taking advantage of pre-regulatory market opportunities. Sandy agrees with the premise and shares the challenges of operating without established legal precedent.13:26–16:21 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Rejecting Acquisition Offers and Analyzing ICO Pitfalls Nathan repeatedly probes Sandy regarding a rejected buyout offer and potential acquisition figures. Nathan then references previous interviews about DAO security exploits to weigh the actual risks of running an ICO.16:23–19:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Nathan's Acquisition Strategy and TheTopInbox Promotion Following Nathan's promotional segment for TheTopInbox, the interview moves into standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering personal habits and educational pedigree.2:01–4:56 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Introducing Sandy Khaund and Upgraded's Blockchain Model Nathan introduces the company and asks how Upgraded generates revenue. Sandy provides a comprehensive breakdown of the double-spend ticketing problem and explains how tokenization, escrow, and data create a viable business model.4:56–10:25 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Early Traction, Team Dynamics, and Seed Financing Nathan presses Sandy to quantify his early revenue numbers and drill into convertible note financing terms. Sandy shares his 4 percent interest rate and 7 million cap, while Nathan questions the mechanics of non-dilutive ICO funding.10:26–13:25 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Navigating Regulatory Uncertainty and Strategic Timing Nathan cites historical business monopolies like Rockefeller's Standard Oil to argue for taking advantage of pre-regulatory market opportunities. Sandy agrees with the premise and shares the challenges of operating without established legal precedent.13:26–16:21 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Rejecting Acquisition Offers and Analyzing ICO Pitfalls Nathan repeatedly probes Sandy regarding a rejected buyout offer and potential acquisition figures. Nathan then references previous interviews about DAO security exploits to weigh the actual risks of running an ICO.16:23–19:41 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Nathan's Acquisition Strategy and TheTopInbox Promotion Following Nathan's promotional segment for TheTopInbox, the interview moves into standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering personal habits and educational pedigree.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 86.1% · guest 13.9%0:00 · Nathan 86.1% · guest 13.9%3:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%3:00 · Nathan 13.6% · guest 86.4%6:00 · Nathan 63.4% · guest 36.6%6:00 · Nathan 63.4% · guest 36.6%9:00 · Nathan 43.2% · guest 56.8%9:00 · Nathan 43.2% · guest 56.8%12:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%12:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%15:00 · Nathan 71.8% · guest 28.2%15:00 · Nathan 71.8% · guest 28.2%18:00 · Nathan 47.8% · guest 52.2%18:00 · Nathan 47.8% · guest 52.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:36 Sandy refuses to disclose buyout numbers

When pressed to disclose the exact valuation of an acquisition offer he turned down, Sandy pushes back with a firm refusal stating he cannot share that detail.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 4:56 Nathan forces exact revenue clarification

Nathan refuses to accept Sandy's vague characterization of doing some revenue in the tens of thousands, immediately forcing him to confirm it is under 50,000.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:36 Sandy breaks down blockchain utility in ticketing

Sandy educates Nathan on why PDF tickets suffer from a double-spend defect on secondary markets and explains how cryptographic ledgers establish singular ownership.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:22 Nathan lectures on regulatory arbitrage and leverage

Nathan demonstrates historical expertise by citing Standard Oil and antitrust policy to argue that massive wealth is generated by capturing market share before regulators step in.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Sandy Khaund and Upgraded's Blockchain Model 3511 Nathan introduces the company and asks how Upgraded generates revenue. Sandy provides a comprehensive breakdown of the double-spend ticketing problem and explains how tokenization, escrow, and data create a viable business model.
Early Traction, Team Dynamics, and Seed Financing 6225 Nathan presses Sandy to quantify his early revenue numbers and drill into convertible note financing terms. Sandy shares his 4 percent interest rate and 7 million cap, while Nathan questions the mechanics of non-dilutive ICO funding.
Navigating Regulatory Uncertainty and Strategic Timing 7314 Nathan cites historical business monopolies like Rockefeller's Standard Oil to argue for taking advantage of pre-regulatory market opportunities. Sandy agrees with the premise and shares the challenges of operating without established legal precedent.
Rejecting Acquisition Offers and Analyzing ICO Pitfalls 6236 Nathan repeatedly probes Sandy regarding a rejected buyout offer and potential acquisition figures. Nathan then references previous interviews about DAO security exploits to weigh the actual risks of running an ICO.
Nathan's Acquisition Strategy and TheTopInbox Promotion 2111 Following Nathan's promotional segment for TheTopInbox, the interview moves into standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering personal habits and educational pedigree.

Statements from this episode (8)

Disclosure
Khaund: Upgraded's revenue model relies on tokenization, escrow, and attendee data
“What our plan is from a strategy of making money is there's a tokenization aspect, which says that just to convert the ticket from a barcode or a PDF into a blockchain ticket, that's part of the revenue model, but there's an additional revenue model, both arou…”
Sandy Khaund Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 3:36
Disclosure
Upgraded has generated tens of thousands in early revenue
“We've done small engagements on the order of tens of thousands.”
Sandy Khaund Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 5:02
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Upgraded tested its alpha ticketing product with an MLB team
“We worked with the Major League Baseball team.”
Sandy Khaund Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 5:20
Disclosure
Khaund: Upgraded has not issued tokens but is evaluating an ICO
“We have not. It's something that we're talking about. We're kind of seeing the momentum around it.”
Sandy Khaund Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 7:09
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Latka: Regulatory response will determine how much ICO wealth founders keep
“There are going to be people that Make a shit ton of money on this, and it's gonna be how they handle, how regulators handle it after the fact that determines how wealthy they stay, but this is how people make a lot of money”
Nathan Latka Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 11:44
Disclosure
Attorneys asked Khaund for blockchain guidance due to lack of precedent
“In fact, they're almost asking me a little bit. The most fascinating thing about this is that this is such new territory right now that there are times when I get as many questions as I can ask, because it's almost like, hey, we know the law, but you know bloc…”
Sandy Khaund Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 12:13
Disclosure
Khaund: Upgraded rejected a seven-figure acquisition offer
“One, there was some acquisition interest to us at some point, and we turned it down, and it would have been nice, and it would have put money in our pocket. Nathan Latka: How much? Sandy Khaund: I can't say that. Nathan Latka: More than ten million? Sandy Khau…”
Sandy Khaund Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 13:30
Opinion
Khaund: College is only worthwhile at top-tier network-building institutions
“Unless it's to the right place, I'd rather they not go, but if it's the right place, and they build the networks, and they kind of test themselves against the best, my wife went to Stanford, I went to Cornell, I went to Wharton, I feel like we, each of us, tes…”
Sandy Khaund Sep 25, 2017 ▶ 18:53
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