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Oct 25, 2017 · 16m · top-founders

823: SaaS: Pre Rev SF Based with $3.3m Raised Aiming to Help SMB's Build Mobile Apps, Will People Pay?

Arun Saigal · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Thunkable co-founder and CEO Arun Saigal to discuss raising $3.3 million through Y Combinator, empowering non-technical creators to build native mobile apps, and testing whether a $20-per-month freemium subscription model can succeed among SMBs.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.4 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 4.2
05100:0010:000:41–3:15 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 GetLatka SaaS Database Announcement Nathan introduces Thunkable and asks Arun to categorize his business against competitors like BuildFire. Arun clearly explains the competitive landscape by breaking existing solutions into three distinct buckets.3:15–7:08 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fundraising, Monetization, and API Revenue Model Nathan presses Arun on taking dilution pre-revenue and calculates their monthly burn rate based on team size. Arun openly acknowledges relying on VC money while outlining their initial five-figure API integration deals.7:09–9:13 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Mission, Real-World Impact, and Freemium Strategy Arun shares a case study of a user in Yemen managing solar power with Thunkable. Nathan acknowledges the inspirational story but immediately brings the focus back to revenue and how they decide what to gate behind a paywall.9:13–12:53 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Targeting SMBs, Price Point, and Churn Strategy Nathan vigorously attacks the low-ARPU SMB strategy by citing Constant Contact's churn figures and low price-to-earnings ratio before their acquisition. Arun defends the strategy by comparing their bottoms-up expansion model to Dropbox.12:58–15:42 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Promo: TheTopInbox Acquisition and Case Study Offer Nathan delivers a promotional sponsor read for TheTopInbox before transitioning into standard, cordial Famous Five wrap-up questions.0:41–3:15 · Guest teaching 3/10 GetLatka SaaS Database Announcement Nathan introduces Thunkable and asks Arun to categorize his business against competitors like BuildFire. Arun clearly explains the competitive landscape by breaking existing solutions into three distinct buckets.3:15–7:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 Fundraising, Monetization, and API Revenue Model Nathan presses Arun on taking dilution pre-revenue and calculates their monthly burn rate based on team size. Arun openly acknowledges relying on VC money while outlining their initial five-figure API integration deals.7:09–9:13 · Guest teaching 4/10 Mission, Real-World Impact, and Freemium Strategy Arun shares a case study of a user in Yemen managing solar power with Thunkable. Nathan acknowledges the inspirational story but immediately brings the focus back to revenue and how they decide what to gate behind a paywall.9:13–12:53 · Guest teaching 3/10 Targeting SMBs, Price Point, and Churn Strategy Nathan vigorously attacks the low-ARPU SMB strategy by citing Constant Contact's churn figures and low price-to-earnings ratio before their acquisition. Arun defends the strategy by comparing their bottoms-up expansion model to Dropbox.12:58–15:42 · Guest teaching 1/10 Promo: TheTopInbox Acquisition and Case Study Offer Nathan delivers a promotional sponsor read for TheTopInbox before transitioning into standard, cordial Famous Five wrap-up questions.0:41–3:15 · Guest disagreement 1/10 GetLatka SaaS Database Announcement Nathan introduces Thunkable and asks Arun to categorize his business against competitors like BuildFire. Arun clearly explains the competitive landscape by breaking existing solutions into three distinct buckets.3:15–7:08 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Fundraising, Monetization, and API Revenue Model Nathan presses Arun on taking dilution pre-revenue and calculates their monthly burn rate based on team size. Arun openly acknowledges relying on VC money while outlining their initial five-figure API integration deals.7:09–9:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Mission, Real-World Impact, and Freemium Strategy Arun shares a case study of a user in Yemen managing solar power with Thunkable. Nathan acknowledges the inspirational story but immediately brings the focus back to revenue and how they decide what to gate behind a paywall.9:13–12:53 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Targeting SMBs, Price Point, and Churn Strategy Nathan vigorously attacks the low-ARPU SMB strategy by citing Constant Contact's churn figures and low price-to-earnings ratio before their acquisition. Arun defends the strategy by comparing their bottoms-up expansion model to Dropbox.12:58–15:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promo: TheTopInbox Acquisition and Case Study Offer Nathan delivers a promotional sponsor read for TheTopInbox before transitioning into standard, cordial Famous Five wrap-up questions.0:41–3:15 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 GetLatka SaaS Database Announcement Nathan introduces Thunkable and asks Arun to categorize his business against competitors like BuildFire. Arun clearly explains the competitive landscape by breaking existing solutions into three distinct buckets.3:15–7:08 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Fundraising, Monetization, and API Revenue Model Nathan presses Arun on taking dilution pre-revenue and calculates their monthly burn rate based on team size. Arun openly acknowledges relying on VC money while outlining their initial five-figure API integration deals.7:09–9:13 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Mission, Real-World Impact, and Freemium Strategy Arun shares a case study of a user in Yemen managing solar power with Thunkable. Nathan acknowledges the inspirational story but immediately brings the focus back to revenue and how they decide what to gate behind a paywall.9:13–12:53 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Targeting SMBs, Price Point, and Churn Strategy Nathan vigorously attacks the low-ARPU SMB strategy by citing Constant Contact's churn figures and low price-to-earnings ratio before their acquisition. Arun defends the strategy by comparing their bottoms-up expansion model to Dropbox.12:58–15:42 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Promo: TheTopInbox Acquisition and Case Study Offer Nathan delivers a promotional sponsor read for TheTopInbox before transitioning into standard, cordial Famous Five wrap-up questions.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 67% · guest 33%0:00 · Nathan 67% · guest 33%3:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%3:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%6:00 · Nathan 20.2% · guest 79.8%6:00 · Nathan 20.2% · guest 79.8%9:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%9:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%12:00 · Nathan 70.4% · guest 29.6%12:00 · Nathan 70.4% · guest 29.6%15:00 · Nathan 52.9% · guest 47.1%15:00 · Nathan 52.9% · guest 47.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:30 Arun invokes Dropbox bottoms-up model

Arun firmly rejects Nathan's skepticism regarding low-end customer focus by arguing that bottoms-up adoption mirrors Dropbox's successful early trajectory.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:20 Nathan attacks SMB unit economics

Nathan rejects the viability of a $20/month SMB tier, arguing that SMB churn eats up the entire market and forcing the guest to consider an enterprise move.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:15 Arun details the Yemen solar power app

Arun educates Nathan on the unforeseen global utility of no-code tools by illustrating how 100,000 families in Yemen rely on an app built on Thunkable.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:20 Nathan cites Constant Contact earnings and churn data

Nathan demonstrates deep industry expertise by detailing Constant Contact's monthly churn of 50,000 out of 60,000 adds at a $21 ARPU to challenge Arun's pricing assumptions.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
GetLatka SaaS Database Announcement 3312 Nathan introduces Thunkable and asks Arun to categorize his business against competitors like BuildFire. Arun clearly explains the competitive landscape by breaking existing solutions into three distinct buckets.
Fundraising, Monetization, and API Revenue Model 6226 Nathan presses Arun on taking dilution pre-revenue and calculates their monthly burn rate based on team size. Arun openly acknowledges relying on VC money while outlining their initial five-figure API integration deals.
Mission, Real-World Impact, and Freemium Strategy 4425 Arun shares a case study of a user in Yemen managing solar power with Thunkable. Nathan acknowledges the inspirational story but immediately brings the focus back to revenue and how they decide what to gate behind a paywall.
Targeting SMBs, Price Point, and Churn Strategy 8348 Nathan vigorously attacks the low-ARPU SMB strategy by citing Constant Contact's churn figures and low price-to-earnings ratio before their acquisition. Arun defends the strategy by comparing their bottoms-up expansion model to Dropbox.
Promo: TheTopInbox Acquisition and Case Study Offer 1100 Nathan delivers a promotional sponsor read for TheTopInbox before transitioning into standard, cordial Famous Five wrap-up questions.

Statements from this episode (8)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Saigal: Seven million users have built apps on Thunkable's platforms
“You'll see that, you know, we already have some between our open source and proprietary stuff, some seven million people who have built apps on our platform.”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 4:13
Disclosure
Saigal: Thunkable charges high five figures annually for API integrations
“We're talking usually five figure kind of high five figures.”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 5:57
Assertion Supported
Saigal: 100,000 Yemeni Families Manage Solar Power via a Thunkable App
“So there was a young guy in Yemen who found Thunkable, built an app on us, and now there are about a 100,000 families in Yemen who manage their solar power through this app that this guy who didn't know how to code built on our product.”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 7:51
Disclosure
Thunkable targets a $20 per month subscription price point
“We're targeting something around 20 bucks per month.”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 9:25
Opinion
Saigal: 80-90% of app store apps can be built on Thunkable
“80 to 90% of those apps are pretty simple and should be able to be built on Funkable.”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 10:54
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Saigal predicts 5% to 10% of Thunkable users will convert to paying customers
“We have good indications that, you know, hopefully five to 10% of our folks will be paying us. But as you said, until we actually prove it out, it's not certain.”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 12:22
Disclosure
Thunkable aims for $10k monthly recurring revenue by December 2017
“From this model, 10,000 bucks a month. Something low, but something that proves out that people are willing to pass. That's more important to us right now than seeing, you know,”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 12:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Saigal: All 10 Thunkable Employees Were Hired Through Personal Connections
“The 10 people in the company, all of them basically came through personal connections, et cetera”
Arun Saigal Oct 25, 2017 ▶ 15:15
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