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Dec 5, 2017 · 19m · top-founders

864 SaaS: LiquidPlanner Goes Niche Project Management, $6m+ in ARR

Liz Pearce · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews LiquidPlanner CEO Liz Pearce about the company's predictive project management platform, its strategic focus on enterprise engineering and manufacturing clients, and its disciplined path to sustainable SaaS revenue growth.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 43.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 2.1 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 2.6
05100:0010:000:50–4:00 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Welcoming Liz Pearce, CEO of LiquidPlanner Nathan references past interview metrics (1,800 customers, $13M raised, $10k ACVs) and asks Liz to define their value proposition. Liz explains their predictive scheduling engine as an automated alternative to Microsoft Project.4:00–6:12 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Target Customer Cohorts, Enterprise Expansion, and Team Scale Nathan accurately diagnoses market dynamics, observing that low-ARPU customers are likely churning to lightweight tools like Trello and Basecamp while LiquidPlanner expands upmarket into enterprise engineering teams.6:14–8:57 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sponsor Segment: The Top Inbox Acquisition Announcement Nathan tries to calculate ARR from customer counts and past benchmarks, but Liz explicitly declines to disclose exact revenue. Nathan pushes back to secure an approximate revenue bracket and growth rate of 10-30% year-over-year.8:57–11:31 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Content Inbound Engine and Fully Loaded Acquisition Costs Nathan quizzes Liz on fully loaded CAC including content team salaries and asks if they achieve a 12-month payback. Liz explains that their payback stretches past a year because enterprise cohorts offer far higher long-term lifetime value.11:31–14:47 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Data Analytics and User Activation in Product Onboarding Nathan asks about avoiding analysis paralysis and identifies onboarding activation benchmarks, comparing LiquidPlanner's schedule recalculation aha-moment to Facebook's famous 7 friends in 7 days milestone.14:49–17:23 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Enterprise CAC Payback and Net Revenue Retention Focus Nathan presses on unit metrics including paid spend, enterprise CAC ($7.5k-$15k), and churn. When Liz dismisses logo churn, Nathan pivots directly into evaluating net revenue retention and cash-flow risk tolerance.17:23–18:44 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, SaaS tools, sleep habits, and advice to one's younger self in a cordial manner.0:50–4:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Welcoming Liz Pearce, CEO of LiquidPlanner Nathan references past interview metrics (1,800 customers, $13M raised, $10k ACVs) and asks Liz to define their value proposition. Liz explains their predictive scheduling engine as an automated alternative to Microsoft Project.4:00–6:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Target Customer Cohorts, Enterprise Expansion, and Team Scale Nathan accurately diagnoses market dynamics, observing that low-ARPU customers are likely churning to lightweight tools like Trello and Basecamp while LiquidPlanner expands upmarket into enterprise engineering teams.6:14–8:57 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Segment: The Top Inbox Acquisition Announcement Nathan tries to calculate ARR from customer counts and past benchmarks, but Liz explicitly declines to disclose exact revenue. Nathan pushes back to secure an approximate revenue bracket and growth rate of 10-30% year-over-year.8:57–11:31 · Guest teaching 3/10 Content Inbound Engine and Fully Loaded Acquisition Costs Nathan quizzes Liz on fully loaded CAC including content team salaries and asks if they achieve a 12-month payback. Liz explains that their payback stretches past a year because enterprise cohorts offer far higher long-term lifetime value.11:31–14:47 · Guest teaching 2/10 Data Analytics and User Activation in Product Onboarding Nathan asks about avoiding analysis paralysis and identifies onboarding activation benchmarks, comparing LiquidPlanner's schedule recalculation aha-moment to Facebook's famous 7 friends in 7 days milestone.14:49–17:23 · Guest teaching 3/10 Enterprise CAC Payback and Net Revenue Retention Focus Nathan presses on unit metrics including paid spend, enterprise CAC ($7.5k-$15k), and churn. When Liz dismisses logo churn, Nathan pivots directly into evaluating net revenue retention and cash-flow risk tolerance.17:23–18:44 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, SaaS tools, sleep habits, and advice to one's younger self in a cordial manner.0:50–4:00 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Welcoming Liz Pearce, CEO of LiquidPlanner Nathan references past interview metrics (1,800 customers, $13M raised, $10k ACVs) and asks Liz to define their value proposition. Liz explains their predictive scheduling engine as an automated alternative to Microsoft Project.4:00–6:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Target Customer Cohorts, Enterprise Expansion, and Team Scale Nathan accurately diagnoses market dynamics, observing that low-ARPU customers are likely churning to lightweight tools like Trello and Basecamp while LiquidPlanner expands upmarket into enterprise engineering teams.6:14–8:57 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Sponsor Segment: The Top Inbox Acquisition Announcement Nathan tries to calculate ARR from customer counts and past benchmarks, but Liz explicitly declines to disclose exact revenue. Nathan pushes back to secure an approximate revenue bracket and growth rate of 10-30% year-over-year.8:57–11:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Content Inbound Engine and Fully Loaded Acquisition Costs Nathan quizzes Liz on fully loaded CAC including content team salaries and asks if they achieve a 12-month payback. Liz explains that their payback stretches past a year because enterprise cohorts offer far higher long-term lifetime value.11:31–14:47 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Data Analytics and User Activation in Product Onboarding Nathan asks about avoiding analysis paralysis and identifies onboarding activation benchmarks, comparing LiquidPlanner's schedule recalculation aha-moment to Facebook's famous 7 friends in 7 days milestone.14:49–17:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Enterprise CAC Payback and Net Revenue Retention Focus Nathan presses on unit metrics including paid spend, enterprise CAC ($7.5k-$15k), and churn. When Liz dismisses logo churn, Nathan pivots directly into evaluating net revenue retention and cash-flow risk tolerance.17:23–18:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, SaaS tools, sleep habits, and advice to one's younger self in a cordial manner.0:50–4:00 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Welcoming Liz Pearce, CEO of LiquidPlanner Nathan references past interview metrics (1,800 customers, $13M raised, $10k ACVs) and asks Liz to define their value proposition. Liz explains their predictive scheduling engine as an automated alternative to Microsoft Project.4:00–6:12 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Target Customer Cohorts, Enterprise Expansion, and Team Scale Nathan accurately diagnoses market dynamics, observing that low-ARPU customers are likely churning to lightweight tools like Trello and Basecamp while LiquidPlanner expands upmarket into enterprise engineering teams.6:14–8:57 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Sponsor Segment: The Top Inbox Acquisition Announcement Nathan tries to calculate ARR from customer counts and past benchmarks, but Liz explicitly declines to disclose exact revenue. Nathan pushes back to secure an approximate revenue bracket and growth rate of 10-30% year-over-year.8:57–11:31 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Content Inbound Engine and Fully Loaded Acquisition Costs Nathan quizzes Liz on fully loaded CAC including content team salaries and asks if they achieve a 12-month payback. Liz explains that their payback stretches past a year because enterprise cohorts offer far higher long-term lifetime value.11:31–14:47 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Data Analytics and User Activation in Product Onboarding Nathan asks about avoiding analysis paralysis and identifies onboarding activation benchmarks, comparing LiquidPlanner's schedule recalculation aha-moment to Facebook's famous 7 friends in 7 days milestone.14:49–17:23 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Enterprise CAC Payback and Net Revenue Retention Focus Nathan presses on unit metrics including paid spend, enterprise CAC ($7.5k-$15k), and churn. When Liz dismisses logo churn, Nathan pivots directly into evaluating net revenue retention and cash-flow risk tolerance.17:23–18:44 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, SaaS tools, sleep habits, and advice to one's younger self in a cordial manner.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 63.6% · guest 36.4%0:00 · Nathan 63.6% · guest 36.4%3:00 · Nathan 20.4% · guest 79.6%3:00 · Nathan 20.4% · guest 79.6%6:00 · Nathan 75% · guest 25%6:00 · Nathan 75% · guest 25%9:00 · Nathan 31.8% · guest 68.2%9:00 · Nathan 31.8% · guest 68.2%12:00 · Nathan 21.2% · guest 78.8%12:00 · Nathan 21.2% · guest 78.8%15:00 · Nathan 39.3% · guest 60.7%15:00 · Nathan 39.3% · guest 60.7%18:00 · Nathan 66% · guest 34%18:00 · Nathan 66% · guest 34%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:48 Liz sets firm boundary on disclosing revenue figures

Liz politely but firmly refuses Nathan's direct revenue estimate, stating she must keep that number under wraps and later rejecting his doubling growth estimate as too aggressive.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:26 Nathan refuses deflection and forces growth brackets

After Liz declines to share specific revenue numbers, Nathan refuses to let the topic drop and negotiates a broad revenue band and double-digit growth range.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:48 Liz reframes CAC payback around enterprise customer lifespan

When Nathan presses on whether payback occurs within 12 months, Liz educates him on SaaS trade-offs, explaining that exceeding a 12-month payback is advantageous when enterprise accounts retain three times longer.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 5:21 Nathan identifies market shift and lower-tier churn

Nathan demonstrates sharp domain expertise by deducing that flat customer counts mean lightweight project tools like Trello and Basecamp are siphoning smaller accounts while LiquidPlanner expands enterprise seat count.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Welcoming Liz Pearce, CEO of LiquidPlanner 5301 Nathan references past interview metrics (1,800 customers, $13M raised, $10k ACVs) and asks Liz to define their value proposition. Liz explains their predictive scheduling engine as an automated alternative to Microsoft Project.
Target Customer Cohorts, Enterprise Expansion, and Team Scale 6212 Nathan accurately diagnoses market dynamics, observing that low-ARPU customers are likely churning to lightweight tools like Trello and Basecamp while LiquidPlanner expands upmarket into enterprise engineering teams.
Sponsor Segment: The Top Inbox Acquisition Announcement 6236 Nathan tries to calculate ARR from customer counts and past benchmarks, but Liz explicitly declines to disclose exact revenue. Nathan pushes back to secure an approximate revenue bracket and growth rate of 10-30% year-over-year.
Content Inbound Engine and Fully Loaded Acquisition Costs 6313 Nathan quizzes Liz on fully loaded CAC including content team salaries and asks if they achieve a 12-month payback. Liz explains that their payback stretches past a year because enterprise cohorts offer far higher long-term lifetime value.
Data Analytics and User Activation in Product Onboarding 6201 Nathan asks about avoiding analysis paralysis and identifies onboarding activation benchmarks, comparing LiquidPlanner's schedule recalculation aha-moment to Facebook's famous 7 friends in 7 days milestone.
Enterprise CAC Payback and Net Revenue Retention Focus 7324 Nathan presses on unit metrics including paid spend, enterprise CAC ($7.5k-$15k), and churn. When Liz dismisses logo churn, Nathan pivots directly into evaluating net revenue retention and cash-flow risk tolerance.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4001 Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering favorite business books, CEOs, SaaS tools, sleep habits, and advice to one's younger self in a cordial manner.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
LiquidPlanner average ACV is around $10,000
“It's, I mean, it's still around that, that amount, I would say.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 3:19
Disclosure
Almost half of new LiquidPlanner signups are complex engineering firms
“Yeah, I would say last month it was Probably in the 40 to 50% ballpark.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 4:10
Disclosure
LiquidPlanner customer count remains steady at roughly 1,800 organizations
“Yeah, we're still around that mark because we're kind of, you know, we're starting to see more customers with more users as the functionality improves you know, we kind of see the smaller ones maybe going to task management solutions versus You know, really in…”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 4:58
Disclosure
LiquidPlanner has a team size of about 65 employees
“We're about 65.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 6:00
Disclosure
Paid channels generate 40% to 45% of LiquidPlanner leads
“I would say about 40, 40 to 45% of our leads are paid, you know, direct paid leads where we're working in different paid channels and then the rest are all organic.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 9:33
Disclosure
LiquidPlanner customer acquisition payback period exceeds 12 months
“We're probably a little past the first year.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 10:49
Insight
Chasing features over initial onboarding harms B2B software products
“If you have a B to B application, you start accumulating surface area in the product, you start fielding requests for new functionality that your customers want or your prospects want. And it's very tempting to, you know, follow the latest bright, shiny object…”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 14:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
LiquidPlanner cuts paid spend by 25% while maintaining lead volume
“We actually cut our spend by 25% and kept our lead volume the same or better.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 14:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
LiquidPlanner enterprise CAC ranges between $7,500 and $15,000
“So I would say, you know, between. 7515 thousand.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 15:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
LiquidPlanner enterprise cohort retains approximately 100% net revenue
“I would say in, in the target customer set that we're going up to, after we're about a hundred percent net retention.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 16:18
Assertion Supported
LiquidPlanner total venture funding raised remains at $13 million
“Still.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 16:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
LiquidPlanner is operating near cash flow breakeven
“We're, you know, we're hovering.”
Liz Pearce Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 16:58
Insight
Definition of financial breakeven reveals a CEO's true risk tolerance
“You can learn about the risk tolerance because they'll say, well, we're hovering like plus or minus five grand black or red, or someone say plus or -200 grand or 500 grand. You get a sense of the risk level of the CEO by getting what that plus or minus is arou…”
Nathan Latka Dec 5, 2017 ▶ 17:02
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