Mar 17, 2018 · 23m · top-founders

966 "We'll Process $1b in Corporate Travel Expenses Over Next 24 Months" Says RocketTrip CEO

Dan Ruch · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview on The Top Entrepreneurs, RocketTrip founder and CEO Dan Ruch breaks down how his venture-backed platform utilizes behavioral economics and shared savings incentives to curb corporate travel expenditures for Fortune 500 clients.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 34.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 1.9 Nathan pushing back 3.1
05100:0010:0020:000:49–3:27 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Overcoming Expense Waste Through Behavioral Incentives Nathan frames the corporate spend challenge by asking how employees can be persuaded to avoid expensive options. Dan reframes the issue from a travel policy failure into a fundamental human biological incentive structure.3:27–8:46 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 SaaS Pricing Architecture and Client ROI Dynamics Nathan vigorously challenges Dan's classification of RocketTrip as a pure SaaS company, drilling into upfront payments without refunds if clients underperform spend. Dan defends the model by walking through the client ROI math and comparing it to unused seats on Salesforce.8:47–10:51 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Google's Blueprint and the Theory of Behavioral Economics Dan explains the origin story inspired by Google's internal cost-saving incentive program and how RocketTrip generalizes behavioral economics beyond corporate travel. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions regarding Dan's direct involvement at Google.10:53–13:46 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Sponsor Spotlight: ProsperWorks CRM Integration Following a sponsor read, Nathan questions why Dan raised $17 million in venture capital instead of bootstrapping. Dan explains the massive market size and the necessity of investing heavily in headcount across engineering and enterprise sales.13:46–17:06 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founder Background and Loyalty Program Psychology Dan details his prior exits and his time as an EIR at Genacast where he conceptualized applying airline loyalty psychology to corporate employees. Nathan interjects with friendly banter about Dan's age and milestones.17:06–21:30 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Enterprise Market Expansion and Growth Projections Nathan calculates estimated monthly revenue by multiplying volume by Dan's two percent fee, refusing to back off when Dan deflects. Dan pushes back by maintaining confidentiality and revealing undisclosed revenue streams from e-commerce redemption commissions and implementation fees.21:30–22:32 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan leads Dan through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions regarding favorite books, CEO influences, family life, and advice to his 20-year-old self in an amicable closing.0:49–3:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Overcoming Expense Waste Through Behavioral Incentives Nathan frames the corporate spend challenge by asking how employees can be persuaded to avoid expensive options. Dan reframes the issue from a travel policy failure into a fundamental human biological incentive structure.3:27–8:46 · Guest teaching 6/10 SaaS Pricing Architecture and Client ROI Dynamics Nathan vigorously challenges Dan's classification of RocketTrip as a pure SaaS company, drilling into upfront payments without refunds if clients underperform spend. Dan defends the model by walking through the client ROI math and comparing it to unused seats on Salesforce.8:47–10:51 · Guest teaching 4/10 Google's Blueprint and the Theory of Behavioral Economics Dan explains the origin story inspired by Google's internal cost-saving incentive program and how RocketTrip generalizes behavioral economics beyond corporate travel. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions regarding Dan's direct involvement at Google.10:53–13:46 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sponsor Spotlight: ProsperWorks CRM Integration Following a sponsor read, Nathan questions why Dan raised $17 million in venture capital instead of bootstrapping. Dan explains the massive market size and the necessity of investing heavily in headcount across engineering and enterprise sales.13:46–17:06 · Guest teaching 2/10 Founder Background and Loyalty Program Psychology Dan details his prior exits and his time as an EIR at Genacast where he conceptualized applying airline loyalty psychology to corporate employees. Nathan interjects with friendly banter about Dan's age and milestones.17:06–21:30 · Guest teaching 6/10 Enterprise Market Expansion and Growth Projections Nathan calculates estimated monthly revenue by multiplying volume by Dan's two percent fee, refusing to back off when Dan deflects. Dan pushes back by maintaining confidentiality and revealing undisclosed revenue streams from e-commerce redemption commissions and implementation fees.21:30–22:32 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan leads Dan through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions regarding favorite books, CEO influences, family life, and advice to his 20-year-old self in an amicable closing.0:49–3:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Overcoming Expense Waste Through Behavioral Incentives Nathan frames the corporate spend challenge by asking how employees can be persuaded to avoid expensive options. Dan reframes the issue from a travel policy failure into a fundamental human biological incentive structure.3:27–8:46 · Guest disagreement 3/10 SaaS Pricing Architecture and Client ROI Dynamics Nathan vigorously challenges Dan's classification of RocketTrip as a pure SaaS company, drilling into upfront payments without refunds if clients underperform spend. Dan defends the model by walking through the client ROI math and comparing it to unused seats on Salesforce.8:47–10:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Google's Blueprint and the Theory of Behavioral Economics Dan explains the origin story inspired by Google's internal cost-saving incentive program and how RocketTrip generalizes behavioral economics beyond corporate travel. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions regarding Dan's direct involvement at Google.10:53–13:46 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Spotlight: ProsperWorks CRM Integration Following a sponsor read, Nathan questions why Dan raised $17 million in venture capital instead of bootstrapping. Dan explains the massive market size and the necessity of investing heavily in headcount across engineering and enterprise sales.13:46–17:06 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Founder Background and Loyalty Program Psychology Dan details his prior exits and his time as an EIR at Genacast where he conceptualized applying airline loyalty psychology to corporate employees. Nathan interjects with friendly banter about Dan's age and milestones.17:06–21:30 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Enterprise Market Expansion and Growth Projections Nathan calculates estimated monthly revenue by multiplying volume by Dan's two percent fee, refusing to back off when Dan deflects. Dan pushes back by maintaining confidentiality and revealing undisclosed revenue streams from e-commerce redemption commissions and implementation fees.21:30–22:32 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan leads Dan through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions regarding favorite books, CEO influences, family life, and advice to his 20-year-old self in an amicable closing.0:49–3:27 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Overcoming Expense Waste Through Behavioral Incentives Nathan frames the corporate spend challenge by asking how employees can be persuaded to avoid expensive options. Dan reframes the issue from a travel policy failure into a fundamental human biological incentive structure.3:27–8:46 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 SaaS Pricing Architecture and Client ROI Dynamics Nathan vigorously challenges Dan's classification of RocketTrip as a pure SaaS company, drilling into upfront payments without refunds if clients underperform spend. Dan defends the model by walking through the client ROI math and comparing it to unused seats on Salesforce.8:47–10:51 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Google's Blueprint and the Theory of Behavioral Economics Dan explains the origin story inspired by Google's internal cost-saving incentive program and how RocketTrip generalizes behavioral economics beyond corporate travel. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions regarding Dan's direct involvement at Google.10:53–13:46 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sponsor Spotlight: ProsperWorks CRM Integration Following a sponsor read, Nathan questions why Dan raised $17 million in venture capital instead of bootstrapping. Dan explains the massive market size and the necessity of investing heavily in headcount across engineering and enterprise sales.13:46–17:06 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Founder Background and Loyalty Program Psychology Dan details his prior exits and his time as an EIR at Genacast where he conceptualized applying airline loyalty psychology to corporate employees. Nathan interjects with friendly banter about Dan's age and milestones.17:06–21:30 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Enterprise Market Expansion and Growth Projections Nathan calculates estimated monthly revenue by multiplying volume by Dan's two percent fee, refusing to back off when Dan deflects. Dan pushes back by maintaining confidentiality and revealing undisclosed revenue streams from e-commerce redemption commissions and implementation fees.21:30–22:32 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan leads Dan through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions regarding favorite books, CEO influences, family life, and advice to his 20-year-old self in an amicable closing.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 49.6% · guest 50.4%0:00 · Nathan 49.6% · guest 50.4%3:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%3:00 · Nathan 27.9% · guest 72.1%6:00 · Nathan 26.6% · guest 73.4%6:00 · Nathan 26.6% · guest 73.4%9:00 · Nathan 39.4% · guest 60.6%9:00 · Nathan 39.4% · guest 60.6%12:00 · Nathan 34.6% · guest 65.4%12:00 · Nathan 34.6% · guest 65.4%15:00 · Nathan 5.2% · guest 94.8%15:00 · Nathan 5.2% · guest 94.8%18:00 · Nathan 36.5% · guest 63.5%18:00 · Nathan 36.5% · guest 63.5%21:00 · Nathan 64.1% · guest 35.9%21:00 · Nathan 64.1% · guest 35.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:05 Dan refuses Nathan's public revenue calculation

Dan flatly declines to confirm Nathan's derived revenue figures and counters by noting that Nathan's single-variable math overlooks their varied revenue streams.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:09 Nathan challenges Dan on derived revenue figures

When Dan deflects on revenue, Nathan immediately pushes back by asserting that he is simply multiplying the exact figures Dan provided earlier.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:17 Dan demonstrates positive ROI under underutilization

Dan walks through the arithmetic demonstrating that even when a customer only achieves half their projected spend, the 2.5x net savings ROI still makes the contract highly profitable.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 5:20 Nathan challenges the definition of RocketTrip's SaaS model

Nathan aggressively dissects RocketTrip's commercial structure, pointing out that a percentage-based upfront take rate without refunds differs from traditional seat-based recurring SaaS.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Overcoming Expense Waste Through Behavioral Incentives 4311 Nathan frames the corporate spend challenge by asking how employees can be persuaded to avoid expensive options. Dan reframes the issue from a travel policy failure into a fundamental human biological incentive structure.
SaaS Pricing Architecture and Client ROI Dynamics 7637 Nathan vigorously challenges Dan's classification of RocketTrip as a pure SaaS company, drilling into upfront payments without refunds if clients underperform spend. Dan defends the model by walking through the client ROI math and comparing it to unused seats on Salesforce.
Google's Blueprint and the Theory of Behavioral Economics 3411 Dan explains the origin story inspired by Google's internal cost-saving incentive program and how RocketTrip generalizes behavioral economics beyond corporate travel. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions regarding Dan's direct involvement at Google.
Sponsor Spotlight: ProsperWorks CRM Integration 3312 Following a sponsor read, Nathan questions why Dan raised $17 million in venture capital instead of bootstrapping. Dan explains the massive market size and the necessity of investing heavily in headcount across engineering and enterprise sales.
Founder Background and Loyalty Program Psychology 4222 Dan details his prior exits and his time as an EIR at Genacast where he conceptualized applying airline loyalty psychology to corporate employees. Nathan interjects with friendly banter about Dan's age and milestones.
Enterprise Market Expansion and Growth Projections 7658 Nathan calculates estimated monthly revenue by multiplying volume by Dan's two percent fee, refusing to back off when Dan deflects. Dan pushes back by maintaining confidentiality and revealing undisclosed revenue streams from e-commerce redemption commissions and implementation fees.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2101 Nathan leads Dan through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions regarding favorite books, CEO influences, family life, and advice to his 20-year-old self in an amicable closing.

Statements from this episode (12)

Insight
Employees biologically optimize for comfort within corporate policy limits, says Dan Ruch
“Companies employ human beings and human beings by definition, biologically, we're lazy and selfish. And this isn't a good or a bad thing. This is self-preservation. We always optimize for comfort and convenience within the limits of policy and because that's h…”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 1:32
Disclosure
RocketTrip offers employees incentives to choose cheaper corporate travel options
“What we do is in a very lean forward pro proactive non draconian way, We start offering employees a reasonable incentive to choose something different than what they would have done otherwise. This isn't about motivating employees to do what they should do. Wh…”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 2:52
Insight
Corporate travel spend averages $1M per 500 employees, says Dan Ruch
“Generally speaking, though, as a rule of thumb, there's about a million dollars worth of travel for every 500 employees, but that can move around quite a bit.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 5:00
Disclosure
RocketTrip charges a 2% management fee on all corporate travel spend
“Every customer pays us two percent of travel spend on a management.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 5:18
Disclosure
RocketTrip manages tens of millions of dollars in monthly travel spend
“It's tens of millions of dollars a month.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 8:26
Disclosure
RocketTrip's managed travel spend is growing roughly 20% month-over-month
“About 20% month over month.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 8:39
Assertion Contradicted
Google spent nearly $1B annually on corporate travel in 2008
“So at Google back in 2008, they came up with the concept of, you know, Hey, we're spending close to a billion dollars in travel every year back then.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 8:55
Disclosure
The creator of Google's internal travel program currently advises RocketTrip
“The guy who built the program at Google is now an advisor to the company. So so we built it in part with him.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 9:52
Disclosure
RocketTrip currently serves roughly 70 to 80 enterprise customers
“About 70, 80 enterprise customers.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 17:07
Prediction Not checkable as stated
RocketTrip will process $1B in corporate travel expenses within 24 months
“I don't know if it's 12 months or 24 months, but we'll break it for sure.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 18:13
Assertion Partly supported
Fortune 500 companies account for 40% of global corporate travel spend
“Well, globally, globally on travel, it's a one and a quarter trillion dollar market. The Fortune 500 is probably, call it 30 to 40% of that.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 18:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Software percentage fees generate over 50% of RocketTrip's total revenue
“Percentage model makes up somewhere between, you know, it's over 50% of our revenue.”
Dan Ruch Mar 17, 2018 ▶ 20:56
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