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May 5, 2018 · 17m · top-founders

1015 How He's Using $10m In AdSpend to Power New SaaS Offering

Chris Treadaway · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Nathan Latka interviews Polygraph Media founder Chris Treadaway, exploring how his company monetized $10 million in managed Facebook ad spend to build a proprietary SaaS platform for multi-unit franchise advertising.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:000:49–3:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Chris Treadaway and Polygraph Media Background Nathan probes Chris on his transition from an analytics SaaS to an ad-tech spend model, astutely noting industry trends regarding brands moving operations in-house.3:41–6:03 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Pivoting Back to SaaS for Local Advertising at Scale Nathan drills down into past revenue figures and questions why Chris is shifting back into SaaS. Chris explains the economics of localized campaigns across multi-location businesses.6:03–8:29 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Managing Micro-Campaigns and Analyzing Seasonal Ad Spend Nathan pushes Chris for precise numbers regarding gross processing volume and client counts after Chris initially gives vague campaign totals.8:32–11:58 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Nathan Latka Show Sponsor Message for ProsperWorks CRM Following the sponsor read, Nathan compares ad-tech percentage margins across market leaders and calculates Chris's top-line revenue based on his fee structure.11:58–14:23 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Direct Brand Strategy, Team Structure, and Microsoft Lessons Nathan offers strategic analogies about vertical integration, comparing Chris's data vantage point to Amazon Basics and his own equity deals with podcast guests.14:24–16:58 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Famous Five Questions with Chris Treadaway A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Nathan corrects his pronunciation of Chris's daughter's name and provides an accurate, synthesized summary of Polygraph Media's business model.0:49–3:40 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Chris Treadaway and Polygraph Media Background Nathan probes Chris on his transition from an analytics SaaS to an ad-tech spend model, astutely noting industry trends regarding brands moving operations in-house.3:41–6:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pivoting Back to SaaS for Local Advertising at Scale Nathan drills down into past revenue figures and questions why Chris is shifting back into SaaS. Chris explains the economics of localized campaigns across multi-location businesses.6:03–8:29 · Guest teaching 2/10 Managing Micro-Campaigns and Analyzing Seasonal Ad Spend Nathan pushes Chris for precise numbers regarding gross processing volume and client counts after Chris initially gives vague campaign totals.8:32–11:58 · Guest teaching 2/10 Nathan Latka Show Sponsor Message for ProsperWorks CRM Following the sponsor read, Nathan compares ad-tech percentage margins across market leaders and calculates Chris's top-line revenue based on his fee structure.11:58–14:23 · Guest teaching 1/10 Direct Brand Strategy, Team Structure, and Microsoft Lessons Nathan offers strategic analogies about vertical integration, comparing Chris's data vantage point to Amazon Basics and his own equity deals with podcast guests.14:24–16:58 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Questions with Chris Treadaway A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Nathan corrects his pronunciation of Chris's daughter's name and provides an accurate, synthesized summary of Polygraph Media's business model.0:49–3:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Chris Treadaway and Polygraph Media Background Nathan probes Chris on his transition from an analytics SaaS to an ad-tech spend model, astutely noting industry trends regarding brands moving operations in-house.3:41–6:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pivoting Back to SaaS for Local Advertising at Scale Nathan drills down into past revenue figures and questions why Chris is shifting back into SaaS. Chris explains the economics of localized campaigns across multi-location businesses.6:03–8:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Managing Micro-Campaigns and Analyzing Seasonal Ad Spend Nathan pushes Chris for precise numbers regarding gross processing volume and client counts after Chris initially gives vague campaign totals.8:32–11:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Nathan Latka Show Sponsor Message for ProsperWorks CRM Following the sponsor read, Nathan compares ad-tech percentage margins across market leaders and calculates Chris's top-line revenue based on his fee structure.11:58–14:23 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Direct Brand Strategy, Team Structure, and Microsoft Lessons Nathan offers strategic analogies about vertical integration, comparing Chris's data vantage point to Amazon Basics and his own equity deals with podcast guests.14:24–16:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Questions with Chris Treadaway A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Nathan corrects his pronunciation of Chris's daughter's name and provides an accurate, synthesized summary of Polygraph Media's business model.0:49–3:40 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Chris Treadaway and Polygraph Media Background Nathan probes Chris on his transition from an analytics SaaS to an ad-tech spend model, astutely noting industry trends regarding brands moving operations in-house.3:41–6:03 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Pivoting Back to SaaS for Local Advertising at Scale Nathan drills down into past revenue figures and questions why Chris is shifting back into SaaS. Chris explains the economics of localized campaigns across multi-location businesses.6:03–8:29 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Managing Micro-Campaigns and Analyzing Seasonal Ad Spend Nathan pushes Chris for precise numbers regarding gross processing volume and client counts after Chris initially gives vague campaign totals.8:32–11:58 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Nathan Latka Show Sponsor Message for ProsperWorks CRM Following the sponsor read, Nathan compares ad-tech percentage margins across market leaders and calculates Chris's top-line revenue based on his fee structure.11:58–14:23 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Direct Brand Strategy, Team Structure, and Microsoft Lessons Nathan offers strategic analogies about vertical integration, comparing Chris's data vantage point to Amazon Basics and his own equity deals with podcast guests.14:24–16:58 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Questions with Chris Treadaway A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Nathan corrects his pronunciation of Chris's daughter's name and provides an accurate, synthesized summary of Polygraph Media's business model.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 42.5% · guest 57.5%0:00 · Nathan 42.5% · guest 57.5%3:00 · Nathan 16.5% · guest 83.5%3:00 · Nathan 16.5% · guest 83.5%6:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%6:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%9:00 · Nathan 48.3% · guest 51.7%9:00 · Nathan 48.3% · guest 51.7%12:00 · Nathan 39% · guest 61%12:00 · Nathan 39% · guest 61%15:00 · Nathan 48.6% · guest 51.4%15:00 · Nathan 48.6% · guest 51.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:42 Dismissing Freakonomics as simplistic

In a very collegial interview, Chris displays his only contrarian moment by critiquing Freakonomics as somewhat simplistic.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 7:11 Demanding exact dollar volume figures

Nathan refuses to settle for campaign counts alone and pushes Chris to state the actual dollar ad spend represented by the 15,000 micro-campaigns.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:07 Explaining Facebook ad complexity and margins

Chris educates Nathan on why Facebook ad-tech fee percentages remain significantly higher than Google due to massive targeting permutations and market maturity differences.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:38 Comparing channel data ownership to Amazon Basics

Nathan demonstrates strong business acumen by analyzing how Polygraph's access to campaign data gives them leverage to vertically integrate or take equity.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Chris Treadaway and Polygraph Media Background 6212 Nathan probes Chris on his transition from an analytics SaaS to an ad-tech spend model, astutely noting industry trends regarding brands moving operations in-house.
Pivoting Back to SaaS for Local Advertising at Scale 5312 Nathan drills down into past revenue figures and questions why Chris is shifting back into SaaS. Chris explains the economics of localized campaigns across multi-location businesses.
Managing Micro-Campaigns and Analyzing Seasonal Ad Spend 6213 Nathan pushes Chris for precise numbers regarding gross processing volume and client counts after Chris initially gives vague campaign totals.
Nathan Latka Show Sponsor Message for ProsperWorks CRM 6212 Following the sponsor read, Nathan compares ad-tech percentage margins across market leaders and calculates Chris's top-line revenue based on his fee structure.
Direct Brand Strategy, Team Structure, and Microsoft Lessons 7112 Nathan offers strategic analogies about vertical integration, comparing Chris's data vantage point to Amazon Basics and his own equity deals with podcast guests.
The Famous Five Questions with Chris Treadaway 5111 A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Nathan corrects his pronunciation of Chris's daughter's name and provides an accurate, synthesized summary of Polygraph Media's business model.

Statements from this episode (14)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Treadaway: Polygraph Media has run over 40,000 ad campaigns
“You know, we've run probably about, I would say, in excess of 40,000 ad camp, individual ad campaigns.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 2:14
Opinion
Treadaway: Agencies are under fire as brands bring marketing in-house
“I mean, I think you know, agencies are very much under fire right now. Brands are getting smarter. The reality is everybody needs to squeeze as much profit as they can out of the deals, you know, out of their businesses. And so they're looking for inefficienci…”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 3:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Polygraph Media's initial SaaS product stalled under $100k in monthly revenue
“Yeah, it wasn't, it was less than a hundred grand a month. It was not taking off.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 4:21
Opinion
Treadaway: Native ad tools fail at multi-location local advertising at scale
“And so when companies want to run 300 dollar a month campaigns across say a thousand locations or 500 locations, it's too complicated to actually engage in that. There's a lot of problems with it. The native tools don't support it very well.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 5:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Treadaway: Polygraph Media managed roughly $10 million in ad spend over 12 months
“I would say in the ballpark of ten million dollars in ad spend, something, something to that effect.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 7:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Treadaway: Polygraph Media operates with about a dozen clients
“We have about a dozen clients, and they're, you know, sometimes they'll turn off for three weeks and turn back on.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 7:35
Disclosure
Treadaway: Polygraph Media charges around a 10% fee on ad spend
“Yeah, so we're about a 10%. It varies based on client and if we're getting more involved in some other ways.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 10:08
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Facebook ad management fees will compress as basic problems are solved
“So what you see is over time, the fee drops because there's more entrance in the market and people solve some of the basic problems. And so we anticipate that with Facebook also, but right now we're about 10%, but when we release SAS, it won't be 10%. It'll be…”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 10:31
Disclosure
Polygraph Media generates roughly $1 million in trailing twelve-month revenue
“It's in the ballpark. I mean, it, there's some things on the strategy side that we will do that might bump that up a little bit, but more high touch kind of professional consulting stuff.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 11:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Polygraph Media claims it can prove attribution for half of client revenue
“And so we're, we can prove about half, half of the revenue that a lot of our clients get when we have that level of data.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 11:52
Disclosure
Polygraph Media is considering taking equity stakes in client businesses
“We're having some discussions about some of that, about whether or not we should own the equity, you know, for the entities.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 12:20
Disclosure
Host Nathan Latka takes equity in guest companies for customer acquisition
“I've started to do that with some people, and it works really, really well, and they're very happy about it.”
Nathan Latka May 5, 2018 ▶ 13:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Treadaway interacted more with Ballmer than Nadella at Microsoft
“I didn't, I interacted actually more with Balmer than I did with Satya, you know.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 13:49
Insight
Founders must move to Silicon Valley just like actors go to Hollywood
“You have to go to Hollywood if you're an actor, and you've got to go to Silicon Valley if you're a startup guy or gal.”
Chris Treadaway May 5, 2018 ▶ 16:04
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