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May 9, 2018 · 18m · top-founders

1019 The Tool Tesla's Data Analysts Use Hits 3,000 Customers

Jack Parmer · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Plotly CEO Jack Parmer to discuss how the data visualization platform scaled past $2 million in ARR using open-source adoption, organic SEO, and a hybrid SaaS and on-premise business model.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 43.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.5 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 4.0
05100:0010:000:49–4:33 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Overview of Plotly's Open-Source Charting Libraries and Enterprise Use Latka explores Plotly's dual cloud and on-premise model, clarifying pricing and architecture. Parmer explains why enterprise clients like Tesla insist on on-premise deployments behind firewalls.4:33–7:03 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Plotly's Founding, Equity Split, and Silicon Valley Bank Debt Financing Latka probes the equity split among four co-founders and questions the rationale and covenants behind taking $1M in venture debt from Silicon Valley Bank. Parmer clarifies the cap table and confirms the venture debt structure worked smoothly.7:03–10:25 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Product-Led Growth and Organic SEO vs Paid Ads Latka calculates Plotly's ARR on the fly using pricing minimums and cloud customer numbers. Parmer corrects him that the customer figures reflect total users rather than logos, adjusting the ARR estimate slightly below $2.4M.10:25–13:05 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Annual Growth Velocity and Enterprise Professional Services Strategy Latka breaks down Plotly's historical growth from $300k in 2014 to over $2M ARR, inquiring about the proportion of professional services in their on-premise deals. Parmer details how integration services are seasonally tied to closing enterprise on-prem deals.13:07–16:13 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Payback Periods, Enterprise Sales Friction, and Low Annual Churn Latka attempts to calculate fully weighted CAC based on a 60-day payback period, but Parmer explains that acquisition is driven organically by product documentation rather than paid marketing or outbound sales. Parmer also outlines low enterprise churn and procurement hurdles.16:14–17:44 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five: Reading Habits, Elon Musk, and Starting Earlier Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions. Parmer humorously dismisses business books in favor of focusing on product development and literature.0:49–4:33 · Guest teaching 3/10 Overview of Plotly's Open-Source Charting Libraries and Enterprise Use Latka explores Plotly's dual cloud and on-premise model, clarifying pricing and architecture. Parmer explains why enterprise clients like Tesla insist on on-premise deployments behind firewalls.4:33–7:03 · Guest teaching 2/10 Plotly's Founding, Equity Split, and Silicon Valley Bank Debt Financing Latka probes the equity split among four co-founders and questions the rationale and covenants behind taking $1M in venture debt from Silicon Valley Bank. Parmer clarifies the cap table and confirms the venture debt structure worked smoothly.7:03–10:25 · Guest teaching 4/10 Product-Led Growth and Organic SEO vs Paid Ads Latka calculates Plotly's ARR on the fly using pricing minimums and cloud customer numbers. Parmer corrects him that the customer figures reflect total users rather than logos, adjusting the ARR estimate slightly below $2.4M.10:25–13:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Annual Growth Velocity and Enterprise Professional Services Strategy Latka breaks down Plotly's historical growth from $300k in 2014 to over $2M ARR, inquiring about the proportion of professional services in their on-premise deals. Parmer details how integration services are seasonally tied to closing enterprise on-prem deals.13:07–16:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Payback Periods, Enterprise Sales Friction, and Low Annual Churn Latka attempts to calculate fully weighted CAC based on a 60-day payback period, but Parmer explains that acquisition is driven organically by product documentation rather than paid marketing or outbound sales. Parmer also outlines low enterprise churn and procurement hurdles.16:14–17:44 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five: Reading Habits, Elon Musk, and Starting Earlier Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions. Parmer humorously dismisses business books in favor of focusing on product development and literature.0:49–4:33 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Overview of Plotly's Open-Source Charting Libraries and Enterprise Use Latka explores Plotly's dual cloud and on-premise model, clarifying pricing and architecture. Parmer explains why enterprise clients like Tesla insist on on-premise deployments behind firewalls.4:33–7:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Plotly's Founding, Equity Split, and Silicon Valley Bank Debt Financing Latka probes the equity split among four co-founders and questions the rationale and covenants behind taking $1M in venture debt from Silicon Valley Bank. Parmer clarifies the cap table and confirms the venture debt structure worked smoothly.7:03–10:25 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Product-Led Growth and Organic SEO vs Paid Ads Latka calculates Plotly's ARR on the fly using pricing minimums and cloud customer numbers. Parmer corrects him that the customer figures reflect total users rather than logos, adjusting the ARR estimate slightly below $2.4M.10:25–13:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Annual Growth Velocity and Enterprise Professional Services Strategy Latka breaks down Plotly's historical growth from $300k in 2014 to over $2M ARR, inquiring about the proportion of professional services in their on-premise deals. Parmer details how integration services are seasonally tied to closing enterprise on-prem deals.13:07–16:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Payback Periods, Enterprise Sales Friction, and Low Annual Churn Latka attempts to calculate fully weighted CAC based on a 60-day payback period, but Parmer explains that acquisition is driven organically by product documentation rather than paid marketing or outbound sales. Parmer also outlines low enterprise churn and procurement hurdles.16:14–17:44 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five: Reading Habits, Elon Musk, and Starting Earlier Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions. Parmer humorously dismisses business books in favor of focusing on product development and literature.0:49–4:33 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Overview of Plotly's Open-Source Charting Libraries and Enterprise Use Latka explores Plotly's dual cloud and on-premise model, clarifying pricing and architecture. Parmer explains why enterprise clients like Tesla insist on on-premise deployments behind firewalls.4:33–7:03 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Plotly's Founding, Equity Split, and Silicon Valley Bank Debt Financing Latka probes the equity split among four co-founders and questions the rationale and covenants behind taking $1M in venture debt from Silicon Valley Bank. Parmer clarifies the cap table and confirms the venture debt structure worked smoothly.7:03–10:25 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Product-Led Growth and Organic SEO vs Paid Ads Latka calculates Plotly's ARR on the fly using pricing minimums and cloud customer numbers. Parmer corrects him that the customer figures reflect total users rather than logos, adjusting the ARR estimate slightly below $2.4M.10:25–13:05 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Annual Growth Velocity and Enterprise Professional Services Strategy Latka breaks down Plotly's historical growth from $300k in 2014 to over $2M ARR, inquiring about the proportion of professional services in their on-premise deals. Parmer details how integration services are seasonally tied to closing enterprise on-prem deals.13:07–16:13 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Payback Periods, Enterprise Sales Friction, and Low Annual Churn Latka attempts to calculate fully weighted CAC based on a 60-day payback period, but Parmer explains that acquisition is driven organically by product documentation rather than paid marketing or outbound sales. Parmer also outlines low enterprise churn and procurement hurdles.16:14–17:44 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five: Reading Habits, Elon Musk, and Starting Earlier Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions. Parmer humorously dismisses business books in favor of focusing on product development and literature.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 45.9% · guest 54.1%0:00 · Nathan 45.9% · guest 54.1%3:00 · Nathan 31.2% · guest 68.8%3:00 · Nathan 31.2% · guest 68.8%6:00 · Nathan 32.1% · guest 67.9%6:00 · Nathan 32.1% · guest 67.9%9:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%9:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%12:00 · Nathan 59.8% · guest 40.2%12:00 · Nathan 59.8% · guest 40.2%15:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%15:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%18:00 · Nathan 95.3% · guest 4.7%18:00 · Nathan 95.3% · guest 4.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:18 Dismissing business reading

Parmer bluntly rejects Latka's standard business book question, asserting that he avoids business books entirely to focus purely on building product.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:48 Challenging debt capital efficiency

Latka challenges Parmer's decision to take venture debt, pressing him on whether his customer acquisition efficiency truly outpaces debt interest rates.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:20 Correcting user seats versus company logos

Parmer educates Latka by clarifying that his stated 3,000 customer metric counts individual users across companies rather than discrete enterprise logos.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:39 Real-time ARR triangulation

Latka demonstrates deep financial acumen by immediately compounding tier minimums and cloud/on-prem revenue splits to estimate Plotly's ARR within a tight range.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Overview of Plotly's Open-Source Charting Libraries and Enterprise Use 5313 Latka explores Plotly's dual cloud and on-premise model, clarifying pricing and architecture. Parmer explains why enterprise clients like Tesla insist on on-premise deployments behind firewalls.
Plotly's Founding, Equity Split, and Silicon Valley Bank Debt Financing 6215 Latka probes the equity split among four co-founders and questions the rationale and covenants behind taking $1M in venture debt from Silicon Valley Bank. Parmer clarifies the cap table and confirms the venture debt structure worked smoothly.
Product-Led Growth and Organic SEO vs Paid Ads 7426 Latka calculates Plotly's ARR on the fly using pricing minimums and cloud customer numbers. Parmer corrects him that the customer figures reflect total users rather than logos, adjusting the ARR estimate slightly below $2.4M.
Annual Growth Velocity and Enterprise Professional Services Strategy 6213 Latka breaks down Plotly's historical growth from $300k in 2014 to over $2M ARR, inquiring about the proportion of professional services in their on-premise deals. Parmer details how integration services are seasonally tied to closing enterprise on-prem deals.
Payback Periods, Enterprise Sales Friction, and Low Annual Churn 6325 Latka attempts to calculate fully weighted CAC based on a 60-day payback period, but Parmer explains that acquisition is driven organically by product documentation rather than paid marketing or outbound sales. Parmer also outlines low enterprise churn and procurement hurdles.
The Famous Five: Reading Habits, Elon Musk, and Starting Earlier 3222 Latka runs through the standard Famous Five questions. Parmer humorously dismisses business books in favor of focusing on product development and literature.

Statements from this episode (14)

Assertion Supported
Tesla's data science team uses Plotly for internal graphing
“So, like a good example is the data science team at Tesla uses us.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 2:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Tesla refuses cloud software for data science, requiring on-premise deployments
“Even someone like Tesla won't use a cloud product for their data science teams. They want something completely behind their firewall.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 2:47
Disclosure
Plotly's revenue is split evenly between cloud and on-premise
“Interestingly, it's about fifty-fifty.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 4:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Plotly employs 20 full-time staff and 10 open-source contractors
“So we're about 20 full time and then we sort of have a team of about another 10 contractors that mostly work on the open source libraries.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 4:52
Disclosure
Plotly raised a $4.5M seed round and $1M in debt
“We raised four and a half million seed and then took on a million in debt.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 6:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Plotly is currently cash flow positive
“Well, we're actually cashflow positive.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 7:04
Insight
Plotly's most efficient GTM spend is documentation and content marketing
“For go to market, the most Efficient way that we found to spend that money for our product and industry was just making our content marketing and our documentation really, really, really good.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 7:37
Disclosure
Plotly has spent only $20,000 total experimenting with paid ads
“We probably spent 20 grand total on paid ads, trying different things.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 8:15
Disclosure
Plotly has crossed $2 million in overall annual revenue
“Yeah, we've broken two overall.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 10:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Plotly has grown its total revenue 1.8x year-over-year
“If you count all of our revenue It's been about 1.8 per year. So we've almost doubled every year. Right. You know, our first year we did basically nothing less than 300,000 dollars.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 10:29
Disclosure
Plotly maintains a customer acquisition payback period under 60 days
“Definitely under net 60.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 13:17
Disclosure
Plotly does not do any outbound sales
“So we don't do outbound sales.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 15:02
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Plotly's cloud customer churn is approximately 10% annually
“For, on the cloud side for paying customers, it's about It's a, I think it's about 10% now. Annually.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 15:41
Disclosure
Plotly CEO Jack Parmer gets at least 10 hours of sleep
“I just, I like to sleep a lot. I get it at 10 hours at least.”
Jack Parmer May 9, 2018 ▶ 17:05
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