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Jul 19, 2018 · 23m · top-founders

1090 CEO Eating Own Dog Food for $25m Revenue, $5.5m Gross Profit, $3m Net

Chris Ingham Brooke · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

PubOcean founder and CEO Chris Ingham Brooke details how he scaled an owned-and-operated media portfolio to $25 million in gross revenue and $3 million in net profit. He also explains how he leverages internal media properties to build and validate scalable B2B publishing software tools.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 28.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 4.2 Guest disagreement 2.8 Nathan pushing back 4.8
05100:0010:0020:000:49–6:34 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Introducing Chris Ingham Brooke and PubOcean's Mission Latka drills down into the company's financial structure, pushing past gross numbers to uncover gross margin and net profit. Brooke pushes back against Latka's characterization of his business model as mere arbitrage, reframing it as fundamental publishing unit economics.6:34–9:01 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 PubAudience and Header Bidding Operations Brooke delivers an in-depth technical explanation of header bidding wrappers versus traditional waterfall ad setups. Latka largely listens to the educational breakdown before pinning down the exact run rate of the new division.9:01–15:43 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Workflow Tools and Testing with Mission for Publishers Latka repeatedly challenges Brooke on why the Mission tool is limited to ads rather than general content A/B testing on homepages. Brooke pushes back on the distinction, arguing that all social content distribution functions as advertising.15:43–18:37 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Horizontal Scaling Strategy, Team Size, and Funding Latka questions why Brooke is splitting focus across lower-revenue SaaS products instead of just scaling the $25M media business, while teasing him over the spelling of Scribol. Brooke outlines the valuation multiple advantages of horizontal platform software.18:38–22:27 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Exploring Exit Opportunities and Company Valuation Latka forcefully rejects Brooke's stance that money does not motivate him, arguing as a capitalist that Brooke should sell the media arm immediately for a payout and even offering to broker the deal himself.0:49–6:34 · Guest teaching 5/10 Introducing Chris Ingham Brooke and PubOcean's Mission Latka drills down into the company's financial structure, pushing past gross numbers to uncover gross margin and net profit. Brooke pushes back against Latka's characterization of his business model as mere arbitrage, reframing it as fundamental publishing unit economics.6:34–9:01 · Guest teaching 7/10 PubAudience and Header Bidding Operations Brooke delivers an in-depth technical explanation of header bidding wrappers versus traditional waterfall ad setups. Latka largely listens to the educational breakdown before pinning down the exact run rate of the new division.9:01–15:43 · Guest teaching 4/10 Workflow Tools and Testing with Mission for Publishers Latka repeatedly challenges Brooke on why the Mission tool is limited to ads rather than general content A/B testing on homepages. Brooke pushes back on the distinction, arguing that all social content distribution functions as advertising.15:43–18:37 · Guest teaching 3/10 Horizontal Scaling Strategy, Team Size, and Funding Latka questions why Brooke is splitting focus across lower-revenue SaaS products instead of just scaling the $25M media business, while teasing him over the spelling of Scribol. Brooke outlines the valuation multiple advantages of horizontal platform software.18:38–22:27 · Guest teaching 2/10 Exploring Exit Opportunities and Company Valuation Latka forcefully rejects Brooke's stance that money does not motivate him, arguing as a capitalist that Brooke should sell the media arm immediately for a payout and even offering to broker the deal himself.0:49–6:34 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Introducing Chris Ingham Brooke and PubOcean's Mission Latka drills down into the company's financial structure, pushing past gross numbers to uncover gross margin and net profit. Brooke pushes back against Latka's characterization of his business model as mere arbitrage, reframing it as fundamental publishing unit economics.6:34–9:01 · Guest disagreement 1/10 PubAudience and Header Bidding Operations Brooke delivers an in-depth technical explanation of header bidding wrappers versus traditional waterfall ad setups. Latka largely listens to the educational breakdown before pinning down the exact run rate of the new division.9:01–15:43 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Workflow Tools and Testing with Mission for Publishers Latka repeatedly challenges Brooke on why the Mission tool is limited to ads rather than general content A/B testing on homepages. Brooke pushes back on the distinction, arguing that all social content distribution functions as advertising.15:43–18:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Horizontal Scaling Strategy, Team Size, and Funding Latka questions why Brooke is splitting focus across lower-revenue SaaS products instead of just scaling the $25M media business, while teasing him over the spelling of Scribol. Brooke outlines the valuation multiple advantages of horizontal platform software.18:38–22:27 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Exploring Exit Opportunities and Company Valuation Latka forcefully rejects Brooke's stance that money does not motivate him, arguing as a capitalist that Brooke should sell the media arm immediately for a payout and even offering to broker the deal himself.0:49–6:34 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Introducing Chris Ingham Brooke and PubOcean's Mission Latka drills down into the company's financial structure, pushing past gross numbers to uncover gross margin and net profit. Brooke pushes back against Latka's characterization of his business model as mere arbitrage, reframing it as fundamental publishing unit economics.6:34–9:01 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 PubAudience and Header Bidding Operations Brooke delivers an in-depth technical explanation of header bidding wrappers versus traditional waterfall ad setups. Latka largely listens to the educational breakdown before pinning down the exact run rate of the new division.9:01–15:43 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Workflow Tools and Testing with Mission for Publishers Latka repeatedly challenges Brooke on why the Mission tool is limited to ads rather than general content A/B testing on homepages. Brooke pushes back on the distinction, arguing that all social content distribution functions as advertising.15:43–18:37 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Horizontal Scaling Strategy, Team Size, and Funding Latka questions why Brooke is splitting focus across lower-revenue SaaS products instead of just scaling the $25M media business, while teasing him over the spelling of Scribol. Brooke outlines the valuation multiple advantages of horizontal platform software.18:38–22:27 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Exploring Exit Opportunities and Company Valuation Latka forcefully rejects Brooke's stance that money does not motivate him, arguing as a capitalist that Brooke should sell the media arm immediately for a payout and even offering to broker the deal himself.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 45% · guest 55%0:00 · Nathan 45% · guest 55%3:00 · Nathan 21.6% · guest 78.4%3:00 · Nathan 21.6% · guest 78.4%6:00 · Nathan 3% · guest 97%6:00 · Nathan 3% · guest 97%9:00 · Nathan 24.7% · guest 75.3%9:00 · Nathan 24.7% · guest 75.3%12:00 · Nathan 22.7% · guest 77.3%12:00 · Nathan 22.7% · guest 77.3%15:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%15:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%18:00 · Nathan 46.7% · guest 53.3%18:00 · Nathan 46.7% · guest 53.3%21:00 · Nathan 43.6% · guest 56.4%21:00 · Nathan 43.6% · guest 56.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:38 Rejecting the arbitrage label

Brooke firmly rejects Latka's premise that his business is simple arbitrage, arguing every commercial enterprise buys low and sells high.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:35 Calling out founder exit reluctance

Latka bluntly tells the guest he does not believe him for two seconds when Brooke claims building a massive company matters more than taking a seven-figure liquidity exit.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:45 Masterclass in ad server header bidding

Brooke educates Latka on the technical shift from clumsy waterfall ad servers to real-time client-side wrapper bidding.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 5:04 Dissecting gross profit vs net revenue

Latka forces a precise accounting distinction between top-line revenue, cost of goods/traffic acquisition, and operating overhead.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Chris Ingham Brooke and PubOcean's Mission 6535 Latka drills down into the company's financial structure, pushing past gross numbers to uncover gross margin and net profit. Brooke pushes back against Latka's characterization of his business model as mere arbitrage, reframing it as fundamental publishing unit economics.
PubAudience and Header Bidding Operations 3712 Brooke delivers an in-depth technical explanation of header bidding wrappers versus traditional waterfall ad setups. Latka largely listens to the educational breakdown before pinning down the exact run rate of the new division.
Workflow Tools and Testing with Mission for Publishers 5446 Latka repeatedly challenges Brooke on why the Mission tool is limited to ads rather than general content A/B testing on homepages. Brooke pushes back on the distinction, arguing that all social content distribution functions as advertising.
Horizontal Scaling Strategy, Team Size, and Funding 4324 Latka questions why Brooke is splitting focus across lower-revenue SaaS products instead of just scaling the $25M media business, while teasing him over the spelling of Scribol. Brooke outlines the valuation multiple advantages of horizontal platform software.
Exploring Exit Opportunities and Company Valuation 6247 Latka forcefully rejects Brooke's stance that money does not motivate him, arguing as a capitalist that Brooke should sell the media arm immediately for a payout and even offering to broker the deal himself.

Statements from this episode (7)

Disclosure
PubOcean: Publishing Division Generates $25M in Annual Gross Revenue
“The publishing side of our business is a twenty-five million a year business. Twenty-five million US dollars. A year on the gross revenue side, and it's a super profitable business also.”
Chris Ingham Brooke Jul 19, 2018 ▶ 4:07
Disclosure
PubOcean: Publishing Sites Yield $3M in Annual Net Profit
“The net on that is is about three million dollars a year.”
Chris Ingham Brooke Jul 19, 2018 ▶ 5:01
Insight
Brooke: Publishing Is Fundamentally Buying and Selling Audiences at Price Differentials
“Publishing is all about, you know on, on the one hand, if you strip it right, right down, it's the purchase and sale of audience at, you know, price differentials.”
Chris Ingham Brooke Jul 19, 2018 ▶ 6:21
Disclosure
Latka Manages Websites Generating 40 Million Monthly Unique Visits
“Nobody knows this, but I manage websites that do about forty million unique visits a month.”
Nathan Latka Jul 19, 2018 ▶ 15:16
Opinion
Brooke: Publishing Software Platforms Create More Value Than Media Sites
“And there's probably more enterprise value in building a platform than there is actually just building this vertically integrated business.”
Chris Ingham Brooke Jul 19, 2018 ▶ 16:19
Disclosure
Brooke: PubOcean Has Raised Only $1.1M in Capital
“We only raised 1.1 million.”
Chris Ingham Brooke Jul 19, 2018 ▶ 16:54
Disclosure
Brooke: PubOcean Operates With 10 Full-Time Staff and 60 Freelancers
“So the editorial team is a team of 10 full-time people. And then we have about 60 freelance writers and editors.”
Chris Ingham Brooke Jul 19, 2018 ▶ 17:44
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