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Aug 3, 2018 · 21m · top-founders

1105 Should you develop every customer request?

Amit Kothari · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Tallyfy founder Amit Kothari about rebuilding his workflow automation platform from scratch, navigating the pros and cons of AppSumo customer feedback, and scaling toward a $100,000 monthly recurring revenue milestone.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 45.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.3 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 3.3 Nathan pushing back 6.3
05100:0010:0020:001:10–5:56 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Introducing Amit Kothari and Tallyfy's Transformation Nathan forcefully criticizes the decision to launch on AppSumo, citing standard SaaS economics regarding customer lifetime value and long-term support liabilities. Amit defends the move by emphasizing accelerated feedback cycles and validation over initial revenue.5:56–8:34 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Defining Process Management and Legacy MRR Migration Nathan presses Amit on upsell percentages from the recent cohort and asks him to clarify his core offering. Amit explains the distinction between static documentation and live process management software.8:34–13:32 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Handling Customer Feature Requests and Discount Cohort Feedback Nathan argues that tailoring a product roadmap to discount buyers is dangerous and prone to confirmation bias. Amit counters by explaining how they use Mixpanel engagement tracking and paid add-on requests to filter out noise.13:34–15:47 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Rebuilding the Product Architecture and Managing Runway Nathan questions why Amit did not shut the company down rather than navigating a complex cap table to rebuild from scratch. Amit justifies preserving existing brand equity and notes their low burn rate in St. Louis.15:49–18:03 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Debating Growth Tactics and Niche Product Differentiation When Amit hints at secret growth hacks and being a billion times better than competitors, Nathan bluntly points out that his MRR does not yet justify the claim and lectures on the temporary nature of growth channels.18:03–19:54 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Founder Vulnerability and The Importance of Distribution Nathan praises Amit's vulnerability during the pivot and reiterates his philosophy that distribution channel mastery trumps product quality. Amit openly reflects on the emotional toll of rebuilding.1:10–5:56 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Amit Kothari and Tallyfy's Transformation Nathan forcefully criticizes the decision to launch on AppSumo, citing standard SaaS economics regarding customer lifetime value and long-term support liabilities. Amit defends the move by emphasizing accelerated feedback cycles and validation over initial revenue.5:56–8:34 · Guest teaching 4/10 Defining Process Management and Legacy MRR Migration Nathan presses Amit on upsell percentages from the recent cohort and asks him to clarify his core offering. Amit explains the distinction between static documentation and live process management software.8:34–13:32 · Guest teaching 4/10 Handling Customer Feature Requests and Discount Cohort Feedback Nathan argues that tailoring a product roadmap to discount buyers is dangerous and prone to confirmation bias. Amit counters by explaining how they use Mixpanel engagement tracking and paid add-on requests to filter out noise.13:34–15:47 · Guest teaching 3/10 Rebuilding the Product Architecture and Managing Runway Nathan questions why Amit did not shut the company down rather than navigating a complex cap table to rebuild from scratch. Amit justifies preserving existing brand equity and notes their low burn rate in St. Louis.15:49–18:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Debating Growth Tactics and Niche Product Differentiation When Amit hints at secret growth hacks and being a billion times better than competitors, Nathan bluntly points out that his MRR does not yet justify the claim and lectures on the temporary nature of growth channels.18:03–19:54 · Guest teaching 2/10 Founder Vulnerability and The Importance of Distribution Nathan praises Amit's vulnerability during the pivot and reiterates his philosophy that distribution channel mastery trumps product quality. Amit openly reflects on the emotional toll of rebuilding.1:10–5:56 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Introducing Amit Kothari and Tallyfy's Transformation Nathan forcefully criticizes the decision to launch on AppSumo, citing standard SaaS economics regarding customer lifetime value and long-term support liabilities. Amit defends the move by emphasizing accelerated feedback cycles and validation over initial revenue.5:56–8:34 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Defining Process Management and Legacy MRR Migration Nathan presses Amit on upsell percentages from the recent cohort and asks him to clarify his core offering. Amit explains the distinction between static documentation and live process management software.8:34–13:32 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Handling Customer Feature Requests and Discount Cohort Feedback Nathan argues that tailoring a product roadmap to discount buyers is dangerous and prone to confirmation bias. Amit counters by explaining how they use Mixpanel engagement tracking and paid add-on requests to filter out noise.13:34–15:47 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Rebuilding the Product Architecture and Managing Runway Nathan questions why Amit did not shut the company down rather than navigating a complex cap table to rebuild from scratch. Amit justifies preserving existing brand equity and notes their low burn rate in St. Louis.15:49–18:03 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Debating Growth Tactics and Niche Product Differentiation When Amit hints at secret growth hacks and being a billion times better than competitors, Nathan bluntly points out that his MRR does not yet justify the claim and lectures on the temporary nature of growth channels.18:03–19:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founder Vulnerability and The Importance of Distribution Nathan praises Amit's vulnerability during the pivot and reiterates his philosophy that distribution channel mastery trumps product quality. Amit openly reflects on the emotional toll of rebuilding.1:10–5:56 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Introducing Amit Kothari and Tallyfy's Transformation Nathan forcefully criticizes the decision to launch on AppSumo, citing standard SaaS economics regarding customer lifetime value and long-term support liabilities. Amit defends the move by emphasizing accelerated feedback cycles and validation over initial revenue.5:56–8:34 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Defining Process Management and Legacy MRR Migration Nathan presses Amit on upsell percentages from the recent cohort and asks him to clarify his core offering. Amit explains the distinction between static documentation and live process management software.8:34–13:32 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Handling Customer Feature Requests and Discount Cohort Feedback Nathan argues that tailoring a product roadmap to discount buyers is dangerous and prone to confirmation bias. Amit counters by explaining how they use Mixpanel engagement tracking and paid add-on requests to filter out noise.13:34–15:47 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Rebuilding the Product Architecture and Managing Runway Nathan questions why Amit did not shut the company down rather than navigating a complex cap table to rebuild from scratch. Amit justifies preserving existing brand equity and notes their low burn rate in St. Louis.15:49–18:03 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Debating Growth Tactics and Niche Product Differentiation When Amit hints at secret growth hacks and being a billion times better than competitors, Nathan bluntly points out that his MRR does not yet justify the claim and lectures on the temporary nature of growth channels.18:03–19:54 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Founder Vulnerability and The Importance of Distribution Nathan praises Amit's vulnerability during the pivot and reiterates his philosophy that distribution channel mastery trumps product quality. Amit openly reflects on the emotional toll of rebuilding.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 75.6% · guest 24.4%0:00 · Nathan 75.6% · guest 24.4%3:00 · Nathan 43.9% · guest 56.1%3:00 · Nathan 43.9% · guest 56.1%6:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%6:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%9:00 · Nathan 31.3% · guest 68.7%9:00 · Nathan 31.3% · guest 68.7%12:00 · Nathan 41.4% · guest 58.6%12:00 · Nathan 41.4% · guest 58.6%15:00 · Nathan 42.2% · guest 57.8%15:00 · Nathan 42.2% · guest 57.8%18:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%18:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%21:00 · Nathan 98.2% · guest 1.8%21:00 · Nathan 98.2% · guest 1.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:23 Defending product superiority in a narrow niche

Amit asserts that Tallyfy is a billion times better than massive competitors like Trello and Basecamp for specific workflows, resisting the host's scale comparison.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 2:48 Calling AppSumo lifetime deals stupid

Nathan bluntly tells Amit that selling SaaS lifetime deals on AppSumo destroys lifetime value and is a terrible strategic decision.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:30 Explaining Mixpanel engagement filtering

Amit explains his structured method for distinguishing superficial feedback from high-value requests by tracking daily active usage and coworker invites.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:21 Deconstructing sustainable growth vs temporary honeypots

Nathan lectures Amit on why growth hacks and favorable CAC-to-LTV ratios are temporary honeypots that require constant discovery rather than one-off tricks.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Amit Kothari and Tallyfy's Transformation 7348 Nathan forcefully criticizes the decision to launch on AppSumo, citing standard SaaS economics regarding customer lifetime value and long-term support liabilities. Amit defends the move by emphasizing accelerated feedback cycles and validation over initial revenue.
Defining Process Management and Legacy MRR Migration 5425 Nathan presses Amit on upsell percentages from the recent cohort and asks him to clarify his core offering. Amit explains the distinction between static documentation and live process management software.
Handling Customer Feature Requests and Discount Cohort Feedback 7458 Nathan argues that tailoring a product roadmap to discount buyers is dangerous and prone to confirmation bias. Amit counters by explaining how they use Mixpanel engagement tracking and paid add-on requests to filter out noise.
Rebuilding the Product Architecture and Managing Runway 6336 Nathan questions why Amit did not shut the company down rather than navigating a complex cap table to rebuild from scratch. Amit justifies preserving existing brand equity and notes their low burn rate in St. Louis.
Debating Growth Tactics and Niche Product Differentiation 7358 When Amit hints at secret growth hacks and being a billion times better than competitors, Nathan bluntly points out that his MRR does not yet justify the claim and lectures on the temporary nature of growth channels.
Founder Vulnerability and The Importance of Distribution 6213 Nathan praises Amit's vulnerability during the pivot and reiterates his philosophy that distribution channel mastery trumps product quality. Amit openly reflects on the emotional toll of rebuilding.

Statements from this episode (8)

Opinion
Latka: Selling SaaS lifetime deals on AppSumo is a stupid strategy
“I think it's the stupidest thing for CEOs of SaaS companies to put deals on AppSumo because Noah's a genius, and he knows if he can convince a SaaS CEO to sell a lifetime subscription, by nature, it's going to get a lot of signups. By the way, it also kills yo…”
Nathan Latka Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 2:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kothari: Tallyfy generated 3,000 signups in two weeks via an AppSumo deal
“Yeah, at least between, it's between two and 3000 signups just in the last two weeks.”
Amit Kothari Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 6:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kothari: Tallyfy leveraged its AppSumo deal to land four enterprise customers
“There's been four enterprise customers that bought an AppSumo deal. And they just said, I don't care about the AppSumo, just talk to my IT guy, we'll talk enterprise.”
Amit Kothari Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 11:43
Insight
Kothari: Only build feature requests for users with proven active engagement
“The second thing is Mixpanel is used to measure engagement. Like, do you actually log in or are you just saying, I want this feature? If you build it, I'll use it. So if you say that, we say, no, thanks. You're not even using it.”
Amit Kothari Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 12:48
Disclosure
Kothari: Tallyfy aims to reach $100K MRR to raise a Series A
“Well, I hope to do a series eight next year. So accordingly, we need to get to something like a hundred or more in, in 12 to 18 months from now.”
Amit Kothari Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 15:34
Insight
Latka: Highly profitable low-CAC growth channels are honeypots that inevitably degrade
“Everyone thinks you find a growth channel where the CAC is one third of the LTV, and it's just going to exist forever. The fact of the matter is, they don't. These are all honeypots, and you can milk the honeypot for a while, but eventually competitors move an…”
Nathan Latka Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 16:31
Insight
Latka: Successful CEOs monopolize distribution channels rather than building better products
“The most successful CEOs I've interviewed are not the ones that have monopolized a space, and they don't even have the best product. What they have done is they've, they have monopolized a single distribution channel, and maybe that's the number one ranking in…”
Nathan Latka Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 19:28
Insight
Kothari: Founders should generate demand through content before building a product
“Demand generation trumps product or ideas anytime. So even if you had nothing, just freaking start a blog about it, and then think about building a product after that.”
Amit Kothari Aug 3, 2018 ▶ 20:48
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