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Nov 22, 2018 · 26m · top-founders

1216 PandaDoc CEO: "We've passed $1m in monthly bookings"

Mikita Mikado · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

PandaDoc CEO Mikita Mikado joins host Nathan Latka to break down the software company's growth to over 10,000 customers and $1 million in monthly bookings, sharing key insights on distributed hiring across Belarus and the US, churn reduction, and disciplined SaaS economics.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 1.9 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:001:20–6:05 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Mikita Mikado's Background and PandaDoc's Core Offering Latka comes armed with prior metrics from their conversation two years earlier, tracking customer counts, ARPU, and funding rounds. Mikado clarifies the breakdown between bookings and MRR recognition calmly.6:06–8:21 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Value-Added Services, Virality, and Sustainable Growth Rates Latka probes PandaDoc's virality and compares their growth rate against SaaS standards. Mikado explains his strategic reasoning for not burning cash simply to push for hyper-growth.8:22–11:01 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Focusing on Customer Happiness and NPS Over Pure MRR Latka challenges Mikado's premise of focusing on NPS over revenue, asking how he correlates NPS with MRR. Mikado responds by referencing industry best practices from leaders like Slack.11:02–14:04 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Strategies for Driving Down Logo Churn and Improving Retention Latka presses Mikado for precise churn figures after quoting his past 5% metric. Mikado resists disclosing exact numbers on air but outlines the structural steps PandaDoc took to lower churn.14:08–17:22 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Gusto Automated Payroll and HR Solutions This segment is a commercial sponsor spotlight for Gusto delivered solely by Latka.17:22–23:38 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Leveraging Global Talent: The Belarus Engineering Advantage Latka digs into M&A rumors involving HubSpot and corrects Mikado on term sheet mechanics regarding liquidation preferences versus valuation. Mikado explains PandaDoc's decision framework and Belarus engineering advantage.23:38–26:19 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka runs through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions, noting Mikado's previous book answer and asking about management lessons learned.1:20–6:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Mikita Mikado's Background and PandaDoc's Core Offering Latka comes armed with prior metrics from their conversation two years earlier, tracking customer counts, ARPU, and funding rounds. Mikado clarifies the breakdown between bookings and MRR recognition calmly.6:06–8:21 · Guest teaching 2/10 Value-Added Services, Virality, and Sustainable Growth Rates Latka probes PandaDoc's virality and compares their growth rate against SaaS standards. Mikado explains his strategic reasoning for not burning cash simply to push for hyper-growth.8:22–11:01 · Guest teaching 3/10 Focusing on Customer Happiness and NPS Over Pure MRR Latka challenges Mikado's premise of focusing on NPS over revenue, asking how he correlates NPS with MRR. Mikado responds by referencing industry best practices from leaders like Slack.11:02–14:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 Strategies for Driving Down Logo Churn and Improving Retention Latka presses Mikado for precise churn figures after quoting his past 5% metric. Mikado resists disclosing exact numbers on air but outlines the structural steps PandaDoc took to lower churn.14:08–17:22 · Guest teaching 0/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Gusto Automated Payroll and HR Solutions This segment is a commercial sponsor spotlight for Gusto delivered solely by Latka.17:22–23:38 · Guest teaching 3/10 Leveraging Global Talent: The Belarus Engineering Advantage Latka digs into M&A rumors involving HubSpot and corrects Mikado on term sheet mechanics regarding liquidation preferences versus valuation. Mikado explains PandaDoc's decision framework and Belarus engineering advantage.23:38–26:19 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka runs through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions, noting Mikado's previous book answer and asking about management lessons learned.1:20–6:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Mikita Mikado's Background and PandaDoc's Core Offering Latka comes armed with prior metrics from their conversation two years earlier, tracking customer counts, ARPU, and funding rounds. Mikado clarifies the breakdown between bookings and MRR recognition calmly.6:06–8:21 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Value-Added Services, Virality, and Sustainable Growth Rates Latka probes PandaDoc's virality and compares their growth rate against SaaS standards. Mikado explains his strategic reasoning for not burning cash simply to push for hyper-growth.8:22–11:01 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Focusing on Customer Happiness and NPS Over Pure MRR Latka challenges Mikado's premise of focusing on NPS over revenue, asking how he correlates NPS with MRR. Mikado responds by referencing industry best practices from leaders like Slack.11:02–14:04 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Strategies for Driving Down Logo Churn and Improving Retention Latka presses Mikado for precise churn figures after quoting his past 5% metric. Mikado resists disclosing exact numbers on air but outlines the structural steps PandaDoc took to lower churn.14:08–17:22 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Gusto Automated Payroll and HR Solutions This segment is a commercial sponsor spotlight for Gusto delivered solely by Latka.17:22–23:38 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Leveraging Global Talent: The Belarus Engineering Advantage Latka digs into M&A rumors involving HubSpot and corrects Mikado on term sheet mechanics regarding liquidation preferences versus valuation. Mikado explains PandaDoc's decision framework and Belarus engineering advantage.23:38–26:19 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka runs through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions, noting Mikado's previous book answer and asking about management lessons learned.1:20–6:05 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Mikita Mikado's Background and PandaDoc's Core Offering Latka comes armed with prior metrics from their conversation two years earlier, tracking customer counts, ARPU, and funding rounds. Mikado clarifies the breakdown between bookings and MRR recognition calmly.6:06–8:21 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Value-Added Services, Virality, and Sustainable Growth Rates Latka probes PandaDoc's virality and compares their growth rate against SaaS standards. Mikado explains his strategic reasoning for not burning cash simply to push for hyper-growth.8:22–11:01 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Focusing on Customer Happiness and NPS Over Pure MRR Latka challenges Mikado's premise of focusing on NPS over revenue, asking how he correlates NPS with MRR. Mikado responds by referencing industry best practices from leaders like Slack.11:02–14:04 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Strategies for Driving Down Logo Churn and Improving Retention Latka presses Mikado for precise churn figures after quoting his past 5% metric. Mikado resists disclosing exact numbers on air but outlines the structural steps PandaDoc took to lower churn.14:08–17:22 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Gusto Automated Payroll and HR Solutions This segment is a commercial sponsor spotlight for Gusto delivered solely by Latka.17:22–23:38 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Leveraging Global Talent: The Belarus Engineering Advantage Latka digs into M&A rumors involving HubSpot and corrects Mikado on term sheet mechanics regarding liquidation preferences versus valuation. Mikado explains PandaDoc's decision framework and Belarus engineering advantage.23:38–26:19 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Latka runs through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions, noting Mikado's previous book answer and asking about management lessons learned.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 67.9% · guest 32.1%0:00 · Nathan 67.9% · guest 32.1%3:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%3:00 · Nathan 44.1% · guest 55.9%6:00 · Nathan 21% · guest 79%6:00 · Nathan 21% · guest 79%9:00 · Nathan 24.5% · guest 75.5%9:00 · Nathan 24.5% · guest 75.5%12:00 · Nathan 40.3% · guest 59.7%12:00 · Nathan 40.3% · guest 59.7%15:00 · Nathan 56.7% · guest 43.3%15:00 · Nathan 56.7% · guest 43.3%18:00 · Nathan 22% · guest 78%18:00 · Nathan 22% · guest 78%21:00 · Nathan 19.6% · guest 80.4%21:00 · Nathan 19.6% · guest 80.4%24:00 · Nathan 38.4% · guest 61.6%24:00 · Nathan 38.4% · guest 61.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:55 Refusing to disclose exact churn rate

Mikado firmly draws a line against sharing sensitive churn figures on the podcast after Latka presses him on the exact percentage.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:52 Latka presses on logo churn definitions

Latka demands clarification when Mikado says churn is 'slower', asking whether it's 3-4% or 6-7% and pinning down gross monthly logo churn.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:15 Explaining bookings vs MRR accounting

Mikado breaks down why PandaDoc's bookings outpace MRR recognition due to annual contracts and professional services.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 22:44 Latka catches slip on term sheet mechanics

Latka immediately catches and corrects Mikado's slip of the tongue regarding preferring clean terms over higher valuation versus lower valuation.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Mikita Mikado's Background and PandaDoc's Core Offering 6212 Latka comes armed with prior metrics from their conversation two years earlier, tracking customer counts, ARPU, and funding rounds. Mikado clarifies the breakdown between bookings and MRR recognition calmly.
Value-Added Services, Virality, and Sustainable Growth Rates 5223 Latka probes PandaDoc's virality and compares their growth rate against SaaS standards. Mikado explains his strategic reasoning for not burning cash simply to push for hyper-growth.
Focusing on Customer Happiness and NPS Over Pure MRR 6334 Latka challenges Mikado's premise of focusing on NPS over revenue, asking how he correlates NPS with MRR. Mikado responds by referencing industry best practices from leaders like Slack.
Strategies for Driving Down Logo Churn and Improving Retention 6245 Latka presses Mikado for precise churn figures after quoting his past 5% metric. Mikado resists disclosing exact numbers on air but outlines the structural steps PandaDoc took to lower churn.
Sponsor Spotlight: Gusto Automated Payroll and HR Solutions 0000 This segment is a commercial sponsor spotlight for Gusto delivered solely by Latka.
Leveraging Global Talent: The Belarus Engineering Advantage 7335 Latka digs into M&A rumors involving HubSpot and corrects Mikado on term sheet mechanics regarding liquidation preferences versus valuation. Mikado explains PandaDoc's decision framework and Belarus engineering advantage.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 5112 Latka runs through the rapid-fire Famous Five questions, noting Mikado's previous book answer and asking about management lessons learned.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
PandaDoc reaches nearly $20M in total funding after $15M Series B
“Series B was no, no, no, it was 15. Yeah, prior to that raised five, so that makes a total of Close to 20”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 3:51
Disclosure
PandaDoc approaches 10,000 total customer accounts
“We are close to 10,000 accounts.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 4:50
Disclosure
PandaDoc surpasses $1M in monthly bookings and approaches $1M MRR
“Depends in bookings. Yes. In MRR, we're a little shy of that.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 5:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
PandaDoc averages 70% year-over-year revenue growth
“No, it's less. We're averaging 70%.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 8:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
PandaDoc's gross monthly logo churn rate is 'much lower than 5%'
“Churn is a, you know, is something that I wouldn't probably be disclosing on a podcast, but it is much lower than five percent.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 12:01
Disclosure
PandaDoc runs professional services as a retention loss-leader
“The reason we do professional services is, frankly, not to make money, but to ensure that our customers get to value faster. And that's that helps tremendously.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 12:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
PandaDoc operates with a 16-month customer acquisition payback period
“Yeah, it's pretty close to 16.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 16:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Building an Oracle integration was a 'dumb' mistake for PandaDoc
“I mean, it's not dumb if you're not, you know, if you're not in, if you're not an SMB SaaS company, but it was pretty dumb for PandaDoc.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 16:42
Disclosure
PandaDoc's 170-person team is split across Belarus and the US
“We've got about 90 people in Belarus. And we've got about 80 people in the U.S. Actually, to be correct, like 97 are in Belarus the last time I checked. A little over 70.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 17:28
Opinion
Belarus's deep outsourcing talent pool makes it ideal for engineering recruitment
“Belarus is fantastic for hiring engineers hundreds of outsourcing companies that you can pull from, and we've been fortunate to have our product organization in Minsk.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 18:22
Insight
Hiring sales talent in Belarus is impossible due to Soviet history
“And on the contrary, it's very hard to hire for sales in Belarus. Almost impossible. I mean, the marketing and sales were illegal in the Soviet Union, and therefore that domain had a really hard time developing, you know.”
Mikita Mikado Nov 22, 2018 ▶ 18:46
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