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Jan 3, 2019 · 17m · top-founders

1258 This Singapore Based SaaS Helps You Manage Empoyee Feedback, $40k in MRR, 8x yoy growth

Chitong Leong · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews EngageRocket co-founder Chitong Leong to examine how the Singapore-based HR analytics platform scaled to $40,000 in monthly recurring revenue with 8x year-over-year growth. The discussion details the company's product-market validation, outbound sales operations, and sound unit economics in the Southeast Asian enterprise market.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:003:04–7:34 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 EngageRocket Founding Story and Early Validation Nathan inquires about the founding journey, early funding, and background. Chitong collaboratively explains the complexity of enterprise HR surveys and their early consulting bridge.7:36–12:52 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Segment: Gusto Payroll Solutions Nathan presses on SaaS metrics including MRR, net revenue retention, and whether being cash flow negative reduces fundraising leverage. Chitong provides transparent figures and explains their outbound sales structure.12:52–15:42 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Unit Economics, Payback Timeline, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan reviews unit economics such as CAC and payback period while converting Singapore dollars to USD. Chitong explains his military background and the nuances of selling across fragmented Southeast Asian markets.15:42–17:35 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and summarizes the company's metrics during the outro.3:04–7:34 · Guest teaching 3/10 EngageRocket Founding Story and Early Validation Nathan inquires about the founding journey, early funding, and background. Chitong collaboratively explains the complexity of enterprise HR surveys and their early consulting bridge.7:36–12:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Segment: Gusto Payroll Solutions Nathan presses on SaaS metrics including MRR, net revenue retention, and whether being cash flow negative reduces fundraising leverage. Chitong provides transparent figures and explains their outbound sales structure.12:52–15:42 · Guest teaching 3/10 Unit Economics, Payback Timeline, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan reviews unit economics such as CAC and payback period while converting Singapore dollars to USD. Chitong explains his military background and the nuances of selling across fragmented Southeast Asian markets.15:42–17:35 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and summarizes the company's metrics during the outro.3:04–7:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 EngageRocket Founding Story and Early Validation Nathan inquires about the founding journey, early funding, and background. Chitong collaboratively explains the complexity of enterprise HR surveys and their early consulting bridge.7:36–12:52 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Segment: Gusto Payroll Solutions Nathan presses on SaaS metrics including MRR, net revenue retention, and whether being cash flow negative reduces fundraising leverage. Chitong provides transparent figures and explains their outbound sales structure.12:52–15:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Unit Economics, Payback Timeline, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan reviews unit economics such as CAC and payback period while converting Singapore dollars to USD. Chitong explains his military background and the nuances of selling across fragmented Southeast Asian markets.15:42–17:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and summarizes the company's metrics during the outro.3:04–7:34 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 EngageRocket Founding Story and Early Validation Nathan inquires about the founding journey, early funding, and background. Chitong collaboratively explains the complexity of enterprise HR surveys and their early consulting bridge.7:36–12:52 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Mid-Roll Sponsor Segment: Gusto Payroll Solutions Nathan presses on SaaS metrics including MRR, net revenue retention, and whether being cash flow negative reduces fundraising leverage. Chitong provides transparent figures and explains their outbound sales structure.12:52–15:42 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Unit Economics, Payback Timeline, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan reviews unit economics such as CAC and payback period while converting Singapore dollars to USD. Chitong explains his military background and the nuances of selling across fragmented Southeast Asian markets.15:42–17:35 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and summarizes the company's metrics during the outro.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 74.3% · guest 25.7%0:00 · Nathan 74.3% · guest 25.7%3:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%3:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%6:00 · Nathan 55.9% · guest 44.1%6:00 · Nathan 55.9% · guest 44.1%9:00 · Nathan 42.1% · guest 57.9%9:00 · Nathan 42.1% · guest 57.9%12:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%12:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%15:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%15:00 · Nathan 50.3% · guest 49.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:28 Clarifying revenue figures and currency

Chitong gently pushes back on Nathan's revenue estimate, noting that actual MRR is slightly lower and clarifying the Singapore dollar conversion.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:02 Challenging investor leverage

Nathan directly challenges Chitong on whether being cashflow negative compromises their leverage when negotiating round terms.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:45 Deconstructing enterprise survey complexity

Chitong educates Nathan on why off-the-shelf tools like SurveyMonkey fail in large Fortune 500 matrix organizations.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:45 Demonstrating net retention mechanics

Nathan immediately breaks down and articulates the exact mechanics of 105% net revenue retention and expansion revenue math.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
EngageRocket Founding Story and Early Validation 4312 Nathan inquires about the founding journey, early funding, and background. Chitong collaboratively explains the complexity of enterprise HR surveys and their early consulting bridge.
Mid-Roll Sponsor Segment: Gusto Payroll Solutions 6224 Nathan presses on SaaS metrics including MRR, net revenue retention, and whether being cash flow negative reduces fundraising leverage. Chitong provides transparent figures and explains their outbound sales structure.
Unit Economics, Payback Timeline, and Customer Lifetime Value 5312 Nathan reviews unit economics such as CAC and payback period while converting Singapore dollars to USD. Chitong explains his military background and the nuances of selling across fragmented Southeast Asian markets.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4000 Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and summarizes the company's metrics during the outro.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
EngageRocket averages around SGD 17,000 in annual contract value
“So right now we're averaging about 17,000 ACV. Singapore dollars.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 2:45
Disclosure
EngageRocket Raised SGD 450K in Its First Round
“So we raised 450,000 in that Singapore dollars in that first round.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 7:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EngageRocket reaches around 40 paying customers
“We are at about 40 paying customers so far.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 9:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EngageRocket generated 5k-6k SGD MRR in June 2017
“In June, 2017, we were doing, let me see... Probably, yeah, we were just over maybe five, six K MRR... Singapore dollars.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 9:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EngageRocket churned 3 of 8 customer accounts up for renewal
“We have had about eight logos that were up for churn at this point. We've churned three of them.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 10:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EngageRocket employs 6 outbound sales reps across BDR and AE roles
“We have six people in our outbound sales team. We've got two we have three business development reps, so they're like SDRs and three account executives who carry quota.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 11:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EngageRocket has 17 full-time employees
“We've got 17 full-time employees. We've got a bunch of interns that are really helpful as well.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 11:55
Disclosure
EngageRocket reports fully weighted CAC between 5k and 7k SGD
“So we're paying between five to 7000 on a fully weighted basis. So everything from like marketing spend, sales commissions and Singapore dollars.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 12:59
Disclosure
EngageRocket achieves CAC payback period under six months
“So so we have it's about six months. Let me see if I'm doing that math correctly. 17,000 with 7000. Yeah, it's under six months.”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 13:43
Disclosure
EngageRocket estimates customer LTV between 38k and 45k SGD
“Overall, I mean, we're early to estimate on lifetime value, but we're estimating somewhere between 38 to 45 K of lifetime value”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 13:57
Insight
Chitong Leong: Southeast Asia is difficult for multinationals due to market fragmentation
“Southeast Asia is such a tough market for multinationals. It's because it's so fragmented in terms of the culture of the language Even geographically, like Indonesia alone has more than 13,000 islands. It's a really tough place to navigate for companies who ar…”
Chitong Leong Jan 3, 2019 ▶ 15:10
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