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Jan 22, 2019 · 21m · top-founders

1277 Mailchimp for Shopify Customers Passes 5,000 Paid, $3m in ARR, 15k Shopify Reviews

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Ben Jabbawy · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Privy founder Ben Jabbawy about pivoting from near bankruptcy to building a market-leading e-commerce automation platform with $3.1 million in ARR and over 5,000 paying customers.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 49.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 3.5
05100:0010:0020:001:32–4:10 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Ben Jabbawy, Privy's Value Proposition, and Pricing Nathan quickly drills into Privy's monetization model and revenue split between self-serve and inside sales. Ben is highly receptive and notes he is a fan of the show.4:10–7:18 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 A $2 Million Failure, Failed Acquisition, and Pivoting to Privy Nathan asks introspective questions about sinking $2M into a failed retail concept and probing whether carrying original seed investors on the cap table causes founder resentment. Ben explains the supportive angel relationship calmly.7:18–10:14 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Privy's Financial Milestones and Ecosystem Integration Strategy Nathan does instant mental math to verify Privy's ARR growth from $1.3M to $3.1M based on paying user counts and ARPU tiers while playfully teasing Ben about reading from a prep sheet.10:16–12:33 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Dominating the Shopify App Store and Review Generation Mechanics Nathan presses repeatedly for the exact copywriting or incentives used to generate over 15k reviews on Shopify. Ben pushes back on the premise, explaining that reviews cannot legally be incentivized and are driven by free live-chat support.12:33–16:21 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Product Expansion, Platform Risk, and Future Growth Horizons Nathan challenges Ben on platform dependency risks, citing case studies of Salesforce acquiring RelateIQ and Shopify acquiring Kit. Ben clarifies Privy's core product identity around conversion rather than pure email marketing and explains multi-platform expansion.16:21–19:54 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Unit Economics: Churn, Net Retention, Payback Period, and Team Setup Nathan analyzes net revenue retention and presses for fully loaded CAC, while Ben explains their low sales payback period of 2 to 3 months on product-qualified leads.1:32–4:10 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Ben Jabbawy, Privy's Value Proposition, and Pricing Nathan quickly drills into Privy's monetization model and revenue split between self-serve and inside sales. Ben is highly receptive and notes he is a fan of the show.4:10–7:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 A $2 Million Failure, Failed Acquisition, and Pivoting to Privy Nathan asks introspective questions about sinking $2M into a failed retail concept and probing whether carrying original seed investors on the cap table causes founder resentment. Ben explains the supportive angel relationship calmly.7:18–10:14 · Guest teaching 2/10 Privy's Financial Milestones and Ecosystem Integration Strategy Nathan does instant mental math to verify Privy's ARR growth from $1.3M to $3.1M based on paying user counts and ARPU tiers while playfully teasing Ben about reading from a prep sheet.10:16–12:33 · Guest teaching 3/10 Dominating the Shopify App Store and Review Generation Mechanics Nathan presses repeatedly for the exact copywriting or incentives used to generate over 15k reviews on Shopify. Ben pushes back on the premise, explaining that reviews cannot legally be incentivized and are driven by free live-chat support.12:33–16:21 · Guest teaching 4/10 Product Expansion, Platform Risk, and Future Growth Horizons Nathan challenges Ben on platform dependency risks, citing case studies of Salesforce acquiring RelateIQ and Shopify acquiring Kit. Ben clarifies Privy's core product identity around conversion rather than pure email marketing and explains multi-platform expansion.16:21–19:54 · Guest teaching 2/10 Unit Economics: Churn, Net Retention, Payback Period, and Team Setup Nathan analyzes net revenue retention and presses for fully loaded CAC, while Ben explains their low sales payback period of 2 to 3 months on product-qualified leads.1:32–4:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Ben Jabbawy, Privy's Value Proposition, and Pricing Nathan quickly drills into Privy's monetization model and revenue split between self-serve and inside sales. Ben is highly receptive and notes he is a fan of the show.4:10–7:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 A $2 Million Failure, Failed Acquisition, and Pivoting to Privy Nathan asks introspective questions about sinking $2M into a failed retail concept and probing whether carrying original seed investors on the cap table causes founder resentment. Ben explains the supportive angel relationship calmly.7:18–10:14 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Privy's Financial Milestones and Ecosystem Integration Strategy Nathan does instant mental math to verify Privy's ARR growth from $1.3M to $3.1M based on paying user counts and ARPU tiers while playfully teasing Ben about reading from a prep sheet.10:16–12:33 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Dominating the Shopify App Store and Review Generation Mechanics Nathan presses repeatedly for the exact copywriting or incentives used to generate over 15k reviews on Shopify. Ben pushes back on the premise, explaining that reviews cannot legally be incentivized and are driven by free live-chat support.12:33–16:21 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Product Expansion, Platform Risk, and Future Growth Horizons Nathan challenges Ben on platform dependency risks, citing case studies of Salesforce acquiring RelateIQ and Shopify acquiring Kit. Ben clarifies Privy's core product identity around conversion rather than pure email marketing and explains multi-platform expansion.16:21–19:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Unit Economics: Churn, Net Retention, Payback Period, and Team Setup Nathan analyzes net revenue retention and presses for fully loaded CAC, while Ben explains their low sales payback period of 2 to 3 months on product-qualified leads.1:32–4:10 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Ben Jabbawy, Privy's Value Proposition, and Pricing Nathan quickly drills into Privy's monetization model and revenue split between self-serve and inside sales. Ben is highly receptive and notes he is a fan of the show.4:10–7:18 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 A $2 Million Failure, Failed Acquisition, and Pivoting to Privy Nathan asks introspective questions about sinking $2M into a failed retail concept and probing whether carrying original seed investors on the cap table causes founder resentment. Ben explains the supportive angel relationship calmly.7:18–10:14 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Privy's Financial Milestones and Ecosystem Integration Strategy Nathan does instant mental math to verify Privy's ARR growth from $1.3M to $3.1M based on paying user counts and ARPU tiers while playfully teasing Ben about reading from a prep sheet.10:16–12:33 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Dominating the Shopify App Store and Review Generation Mechanics Nathan presses repeatedly for the exact copywriting or incentives used to generate over 15k reviews on Shopify. Ben pushes back on the premise, explaining that reviews cannot legally be incentivized and are driven by free live-chat support.12:33–16:21 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Product Expansion, Platform Risk, and Future Growth Horizons Nathan challenges Ben on platform dependency risks, citing case studies of Salesforce acquiring RelateIQ and Shopify acquiring Kit. Ben clarifies Privy's core product identity around conversion rather than pure email marketing and explains multi-platform expansion.16:21–19:54 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Unit Economics: Churn, Net Retention, Payback Period, and Team Setup Nathan analyzes net revenue retention and presses for fully loaded CAC, while Ben explains their low sales payback period of 2 to 3 months on product-qualified leads.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 67.8% · guest 32.2%0:00 · Nathan 67.8% · guest 32.2%3:00 · Nathan 30.8% · guest 69.2%3:00 · Nathan 30.8% · guest 69.2%6:00 · Nathan 42.1% · guest 57.9%6:00 · Nathan 42.1% · guest 57.9%9:00 · Nathan 66.8% · guest 33.2%9:00 · Nathan 66.8% · guest 33.2%12:00 · Nathan 38.7% · guest 61.3%12:00 · Nathan 38.7% · guest 61.3%15:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%15:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%18:00 · Nathan 54.5% · guest 45.5%18:00 · Nathan 54.5% · guest 45.5%21:00 · Nathan 96.6% · guest 3.4%21:00 · Nathan 96.6% · guest 3.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:58 Rejecting the premise of an onboarding review trick

Ben firmly dismisses Nathan's assertion that there is a sneaky carrot-or-stick wording trick behind their 15k reviews, highlighting strict platform rules against review incentives.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:17 Challenging ecosystem leverage and platform risk

Nathan refuses to accept passive complacency on Shopify distribution, laying out a detailed comparison to how Salesforce pushed out Sirius Insights after buying a competitor.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:35 Correcting Privy's product definition

Ben corrects Nathan's framing of Privy as purely a lifecycle email tool, clarifying that their core product wedge is on-site exit-intent conversion.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:33 Citing T-Sheets exit multiple on app store ecosystems

Nathan demonstrates strong M&A knowledge by citing Matt Rissell selling T-Sheets to Intuit for a 10x multiple to pressure Ben on why he hasn't pursued an exit.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Ben Jabbawy, Privy's Value Proposition, and Pricing 5112 Nathan quickly drills into Privy's monetization model and revenue split between self-serve and inside sales. Ben is highly receptive and notes he is a fan of the show.
A $2 Million Failure, Failed Acquisition, and Pivoting to Privy 5213 Nathan asks introspective questions about sinking $2M into a failed retail concept and probing whether carrying original seed investors on the cap table causes founder resentment. Ben explains the supportive angel relationship calmly.
Privy's Financial Milestones and Ecosystem Integration Strategy 6212 Nathan does instant mental math to verify Privy's ARR growth from $1.3M to $3.1M based on paying user counts and ARPU tiers while playfully teasing Ben about reading from a prep sheet.
Dominating the Shopify App Store and Review Generation Mechanics 6335 Nathan presses repeatedly for the exact copywriting or incentives used to generate over 15k reviews on Shopify. Ben pushes back on the premise, explaining that reviews cannot legally be incentivized and are driven by free live-chat support.
Product Expansion, Platform Risk, and Future Growth Horizons 7426 Nathan challenges Ben on platform dependency risks, citing case studies of Salesforce acquiring RelateIQ and Shopify acquiring Kit. Ben clarifies Privy's core product identity around conversion rather than pure email marketing and explains multi-platform expansion.
Unit Economics: Churn, Net Retention, Payback Period, and Team Setup 6213 Nathan analyzes net revenue retention and presses for fully loaded CAC, while Ben explains their low sales payback period of 2 to 3 months on product-qualified leads.

Statements from this episode (17)

Disclosure
Privy averages $50 per month for self-serve and $300 for sales
“We have kind of two segments that we look at. We have a fully self-serve funnel. The average there is about 50 bucks a month. And then we have kind of a product qualified inside sales driven effort that's growing. That's about 300 dollars a month.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 3:12
Disclosure
Privy generates 80% of revenue from self-serve and 20% from sales
“So right now, let's see, it's about 80% of the business is self-serve. We actually just brought on our first member of the sales team about four months ago. So ramping quickly but already 20% of MRRs coming from direct inside efforts.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 3:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ben Jabbawy sank $2M into Privy's failed predecessor before pivoting
“About two million dollars.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 5:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Privy's predecessor had $1,000 left when an acquisition deal collapsed
“The bank account was basically zero. We had about a thousand dollars in the account. And the deal fell apart. So we were really forced to say, are we shutting down?”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 5:47
Disclosure
Privy and its predecessor venture raised a combined $4M to date
“Across both efforts we've raised four million to date.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 6:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Privy hits $3.1M ARR across 5,000 paying and 100,000 active users
“So we have over a 100,000 active users. About 5000 of those are paying customers. And today we're at 3.1 million ARR.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 7:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Privy grew from $1.3M ARR in June of the prior year
“1.3 million ARR in June.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 8:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Most Privy growth comes from marketplace freemium distribution on Shopify
“So most of it comes through this marketplace freemium distribution model that we have.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 8:43
Assertion Supported
Privy ranks as Shopify's #1 marketing app and #2 overall app
“Shopify. [623] Nathan Latka: You didn't even hesitate. [625] Ben Jabbawy: I mean, for sure, you know, that it's kind of like a rocket ship over there, and we've, we're the number one app in that ecosystem. [632] Nathan Latka: For what category, like what searc…”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 10:22
Assertion Supported
Privy has accumulated over 15,000 reviews on the Shopify App Store
“So if you have 15,478 reviews on Shopify,”
Nathan Latka Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 10:57
Assertion Supported
Shopify strictly bans developers from incentivizing app store reviews
“It's, you're not allowed to actually incentivize reviews.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 11:59
Assertion Supported
TSheets hit $30M ARR on Intuit and sold for a 10x multiple
“Well, look, Matt Russell optimized everything at T-Sheets to be number one in the Intuit app exchange, which about, you know, thirty million in AR, then flipped it for about 10 X to Brad a couple of months ago.”
Nathan Latka Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 12:33
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Privy projects a clear path to $8M to $10M ARR next year
“Like, we see a very clear path from four to eight to 10 next year.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 12:55
Disclosure
Privy is expanding into automated abandoned cart and post-purchase emails
“So we are rolling out some of those simple use cases that you would need around e-commerce automation, like abandoned cart emails, post purchase emails, win back, stuff like that.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 13:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Privy maintains a gross monthly revenue churn between 3% and 4%
“Today at a gross level, we're kind of around between three and four. but as we've expanded our revenue. Revenue, MRR.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 16:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Privy reached $3.1M ARR without spending anything on paid marketing
“So we actually don't do any paid marketing.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 18:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Privy achieves a CAC payback period of two to three months
“Now that we're growing an inside sales team, we look at that a little bit differently in terms of how long to pay back. And we're seeing, you know, between two and three months basically.”
Ben Jabbawy Jan 22, 2019 ▶ 18:40
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