Apr 3, 2019 · 21m · top-founders

1348 His BlockChain Wallet Will be on 100m Phones by EOY 2018, Does He Make Money?

Jacob Katsoff · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews UpChannel founder Jacob Katsoff to examine how the startup pre-installs crypto wallets across 100 million emerging-market smartphones to undercut traditional remittance fees and scale blockchain infrastructure.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 2.6 Nathan pushing back 4.7
05100:0010:0020:000:00–2:34 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of a book promotion and preview clips of the interview. Per scoring rules for solo/promo sections, all scores are set to zero.2:35–4:51 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Jacob Katsoff and UpChannel's Mission Nathan interrupts Jacob's grand claim of becoming the largest wallet holder to demand a precise definition of the metric and asks what happens if accounts are empty. Jacob responds calmly by clarifying the emerging market focus.4:51–8:45 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Monetization Strategy and Decentralized App Discovery Nathan drills down on the remittance fee margins and probes the discoverability business model, comparing it to an app store. Jacob adjusts the analogy to a recommendation engine and resists revealing specific partner names.8:45–10:48 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Fundraising History, Series A Goals, and OEM Hardware Strategy Jacob details their fundraising and explains the tier-two hardware manufacturing ecosystem such as Hyundai Mobile. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions without significant friction.10:48–13:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Active Device Metrics, Customer Engagement, and Pre-Revenue Reality Nathan pushes past Jacob's reluctance to share usage metrics and corners him into acknowledging that the company is currently pre-revenue because the remittance wallet has not yet launched.13:38–18:03 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Valuation Debates, Incumbent Competition, and OEM Revenue Sharing Nathan rejects Jacob's valuation comparisons to Coinbase and Venmo, pointing out that those companies have actual revenue, and challenges UpChannel's moat against incumbent pricing wars and white-label risks.18:03–20:24 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Fundraising Structure and Lead Investor Dynamics Nathan scrutinizes Jacob's fundraising strategy of collecting signed checks without a priced lead investor, highlighting potential downstream dilution risks before shifting to the Famous Five.0:00–2:34 · Guest teaching 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of a book promotion and preview clips of the interview. Per scoring rules for solo/promo sections, all scores are set to zero.2:35–4:51 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Jacob Katsoff and UpChannel's Mission Nathan interrupts Jacob's grand claim of becoming the largest wallet holder to demand a precise definition of the metric and asks what happens if accounts are empty. Jacob responds calmly by clarifying the emerging market focus.4:51–8:45 · Guest teaching 3/10 Monetization Strategy and Decentralized App Discovery Nathan drills down on the remittance fee margins and probes the discoverability business model, comparing it to an app store. Jacob adjusts the analogy to a recommendation engine and resists revealing specific partner names.8:45–10:48 · Guest teaching 4/10 Fundraising History, Series A Goals, and OEM Hardware Strategy Jacob details their fundraising and explains the tier-two hardware manufacturing ecosystem such as Hyundai Mobile. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions without significant friction.10:48–13:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Active Device Metrics, Customer Engagement, and Pre-Revenue Reality Nathan pushes past Jacob's reluctance to share usage metrics and corners him into acknowledging that the company is currently pre-revenue because the remittance wallet has not yet launched.13:38–18:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Valuation Debates, Incumbent Competition, and OEM Revenue Sharing Nathan rejects Jacob's valuation comparisons to Coinbase and Venmo, pointing out that those companies have actual revenue, and challenges UpChannel's moat against incumbent pricing wars and white-label risks.18:03–20:24 · Guest teaching 3/10 Fundraising Structure and Lead Investor Dynamics Nathan scrutinizes Jacob's fundraising strategy of collecting signed checks without a priced lead investor, highlighting potential downstream dilution risks before shifting to the Famous Five.0:00–2:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of a book promotion and preview clips of the interview. Per scoring rules for solo/promo sections, all scores are set to zero.2:35–4:51 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Introducing Jacob Katsoff and UpChannel's Mission Nathan interrupts Jacob's grand claim of becoming the largest wallet holder to demand a precise definition of the metric and asks what happens if accounts are empty. Jacob responds calmly by clarifying the emerging market focus.4:51–8:45 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Monetization Strategy and Decentralized App Discovery Nathan drills down on the remittance fee margins and probes the discoverability business model, comparing it to an app store. Jacob adjusts the analogy to a recommendation engine and resists revealing specific partner names.8:45–10:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Fundraising History, Series A Goals, and OEM Hardware Strategy Jacob details their fundraising and explains the tier-two hardware manufacturing ecosystem such as Hyundai Mobile. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions without significant friction.10:48–13:37 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Active Device Metrics, Customer Engagement, and Pre-Revenue Reality Nathan pushes past Jacob's reluctance to share usage metrics and corners him into acknowledging that the company is currently pre-revenue because the remittance wallet has not yet launched.13:38–18:03 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Valuation Debates, Incumbent Competition, and OEM Revenue Sharing Nathan rejects Jacob's valuation comparisons to Coinbase and Venmo, pointing out that those companies have actual revenue, and challenges UpChannel's moat against incumbent pricing wars and white-label risks.18:03–20:24 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Fundraising Structure and Lead Investor Dynamics Nathan scrutinizes Jacob's fundraising strategy of collecting signed checks without a priced lead investor, highlighting potential downstream dilution risks before shifting to the Famous Five.0:00–2:34 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Monologue segment consisting of a book promotion and preview clips of the interview. Per scoring rules for solo/promo sections, all scores are set to zero.2:35–4:51 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Introducing Jacob Katsoff and UpChannel's Mission Nathan interrupts Jacob's grand claim of becoming the largest wallet holder to demand a precise definition of the metric and asks what happens if accounts are empty. Jacob responds calmly by clarifying the emerging market focus.4:51–8:45 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Monetization Strategy and Decentralized App Discovery Nathan drills down on the remittance fee margins and probes the discoverability business model, comparing it to an app store. Jacob adjusts the analogy to a recommendation engine and resists revealing specific partner names.8:45–10:48 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Fundraising History, Series A Goals, and OEM Hardware Strategy Jacob details their fundraising and explains the tier-two hardware manufacturing ecosystem such as Hyundai Mobile. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions without significant friction.10:48–13:37 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Active Device Metrics, Customer Engagement, and Pre-Revenue Reality Nathan pushes past Jacob's reluctance to share usage metrics and corners him into acknowledging that the company is currently pre-revenue because the remittance wallet has not yet launched.13:38–18:03 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Valuation Debates, Incumbent Competition, and OEM Revenue Sharing Nathan rejects Jacob's valuation comparisons to Coinbase and Venmo, pointing out that those companies have actual revenue, and challenges UpChannel's moat against incumbent pricing wars and white-label risks.18:03–20:24 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Fundraising Structure and Lead Investor Dynamics Nathan scrutinizes Jacob's fundraising strategy of collecting signed checks without a priced lead investor, highlighting potential downstream dilution risks before shifting to the Famous Five.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 94.1% · guest 5.9%0:00 · Nathan 94.1% · guest 5.9%3:00 · Nathan 19% · guest 81%3:00 · Nathan 19% · guest 81%6:00 · Nathan 25.1% · guest 74.9%6:00 · Nathan 25.1% · guest 74.9%9:00 · Nathan 19.7% · guest 80.3%9:00 · Nathan 19.7% · guest 80.3%12:00 · Nathan 36.1% · guest 63.9%12:00 · Nathan 36.1% · guest 63.9%15:00 · Nathan 48.2% · guest 51.8%15:00 · Nathan 48.2% · guest 51.8%18:00 · Nathan 63.1% · guest 36.9%18:00 · Nathan 63.1% · guest 36.9%21:00 · Nathan 98.4% · guest 1.6%21:00 · Nathan 98.4% · guest 1.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:17 Jacob pushes back against competitive threat scenarios

Jacob dismissively responds to Nathan's critique of pricing power by questioning why anyone would start a startup if fear of tech giants copying them governed decisions.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:00 Nathan calls out false valuation comparables

Nathan bluntly shuts down Jacob's valuation defense by asserting that Coinbase and Venmo generate real top-line revenue whereas UpChannel has none.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:39 Jacob explains the tier-two smartphone manufacturing market

Jacob provides a clear breakdown of the 30% unbranded global smartphone market and why manufacturers like Hyundai require embedded software to handle customer service.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 17:16 Nathan dismantles the white-label customer loyalty assumption

Nathan demonstrates domain knowledge by pointing out that because UpChannel is white-labeled, end-users have zero brand loyalty to them if the hardware partner switches vendors.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Book Promotion: How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital 0000 Monologue segment consisting of a book promotion and preview clips of the interview. Per scoring rules for solo/promo sections, all scores are set to zero.
Introducing Jacob Katsoff and UpChannel's Mission 5325 Nathan interrupts Jacob's grand claim of becoming the largest wallet holder to demand a precise definition of the metric and asks what happens if accounts are empty. Jacob responds calmly by clarifying the emerging market focus.
Monetization Strategy and Decentralized App Discovery 5335 Nathan drills down on the remittance fee margins and probes the discoverability business model, comparing it to an app store. Jacob adjusts the analogy to a recommendation engine and resists revealing specific partner names.
Fundraising History, Series A Goals, and OEM Hardware Strategy 4412 Jacob details their fundraising and explains the tier-two hardware manufacturing ecosystem such as Hyundai Mobile. Nathan listens and asks clarifying questions without significant friction.
Active Device Metrics, Customer Engagement, and Pre-Revenue Reality 6237 Nathan pushes past Jacob's reluctance to share usage metrics and corners him into acknowledging that the company is currently pre-revenue because the remittance wallet has not yet launched.
Valuation Debates, Incumbent Competition, and OEM Revenue Sharing 8368 Nathan rejects Jacob's valuation comparisons to Coinbase and Venmo, pointing out that those companies have actual revenue, and challenges UpChannel's moat against incumbent pricing wars and white-label risks.
Fundraising Structure and Lead Investor Dynamics 7336 Nathan scrutinizes Jacob's fundraising strategy of collecting signed checks without a priced lead investor, highlighting potential downstream dilution risks before shifting to the Famous Five.

Statements from this episode (13)

Prediction Not checkable as stated
Katsoff: 100M smartphone owners will use UpChannel's wallet within a year
“By this time next year, there'll be a hundred million smartphone owners using the digital wallet that we distribute.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 3:41
Disclosure
Katsoff: UpChannel charges a 0.5% fee on remittances
“We're just going to half of the one percent.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 5:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Katsoff: UpChannel has signed contracts for 100M smartphones annually
“We actually have a hundred million smartphones annual to be shipped, signed under contract.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 6:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Katsoff: UpChannel currently operates with a team of 11
“We're a team of 11.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 8:18
Disclosure
UpChannel has raised under $1.5M in total capital to date
“We, we've raised less than 1.5 million dollars in total to date.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 8:52
Disclosure
UpChannel has not launched an ICO
“We have not launched an ICO.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 9:02
Disclosure
UpChannel is raising a $4M Series A round
“Trying to raise four million.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 9:17
Disclosure
UpChannel partners with Hyundai Mobile for smartphone software
“One of our partners is called Hyundai mobile.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 10:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Katsoff: UpChannel App Opens Exceed Two Times Per User Weekly
“Our open rates are It's more than two times per user or per week right now at this, at our current rate.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 11:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Katsoff: UpChannel Is Active on About Two Million Phones
“We're on about two million phones today.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 12:13
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Katsoff: UpChannel Is Currently Pre-Revenue
“We're pre revenue.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 13:36
Disclosure
Katsoff: UpChannel gives hardware OEMs recurring revenue share from fees
“Our partners will get a cut of the revenue generated, which is a new source of revenue, which is in many cases, the first of its kind for a hardware manufacturer that's used to one-off sales.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 17:36
Disclosure
Katsoff: UpChannel Has Multiple Checks In but Still Seeks a Lead
“We're trying to raise as soon as possible. We have many checks in, but we're looking for a lead.”
Jacob Katsoff Apr 3, 2019 ▶ 18:07
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