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May 2, 2019 · 16m · top-founders

1377 Moving To Enterprise Reduced Revenue Churn by 50% in Under 12 Months

Steven Rhyne · 7m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Conveyor co-founder Steven Rhyne to explore how the bootstrapped micro-learning SaaS company halved its monthly revenue churn to 7% and reached $845,000 in ARR by shifting upmarket to enterprise clients.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 2.6
05100:0010:000:00–2:12 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Release Segment is an introductory monologue and book promotion by the host. Per scoring guidelines, host and guest scores are zeroed out.2:14–4:51 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Steven Rhyne's Background and Conveyor's Inception Nathan introduces Steven and asks about the company's timeline and product evolution from 2009 to 2016. Steven smoothly details Conveyor's origins and micro-learning value proposition in an agreeable tone.4:52–8:53 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Transitioning Upmarket to Enterprise SaaS Subscriptions Nathan digs into ARR numbers, quickly deducing pure-play SaaS figures and calculating the $700 monthly ARPU. Steven readily validates the numbers and explains their deliberate move upmarket to enterprise clients.8:54–12:06 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Bootstrapping Philosophy and Global Remote Team Nathan rigorously drills down into churn metrics, demanding clarification on whether figures represent logo or revenue churn and net versus gross. Steven clarifies the definitions and explains how onboarding support cut revenue churn from 15% to 7%.12:07–15:28 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition via LinkedIn and Unit Economics Nathan computes the LTV payback timeline to 29 months on the fly before breezing through the Famous Five. Steven politely corrects Nathan's guess of his favorite book title to Make It Stick.0:00–2:12 · Guest teaching 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Release Segment is an introductory monologue and book promotion by the host. Per scoring guidelines, host and guest scores are zeroed out.2:14–4:51 · Guest teaching 2/10 Steven Rhyne's Background and Conveyor's Inception Nathan introduces Steven and asks about the company's timeline and product evolution from 2009 to 2016. Steven smoothly details Conveyor's origins and micro-learning value proposition in an agreeable tone.4:52–8:53 · Guest teaching 2/10 Transitioning Upmarket to Enterprise SaaS Subscriptions Nathan digs into ARR numbers, quickly deducing pure-play SaaS figures and calculating the $700 monthly ARPU. Steven readily validates the numbers and explains their deliberate move upmarket to enterprise clients.8:54–12:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Bootstrapping Philosophy and Global Remote Team Nathan rigorously drills down into churn metrics, demanding clarification on whether figures represent logo or revenue churn and net versus gross. Steven clarifies the definitions and explains how onboarding support cut revenue churn from 15% to 7%.12:07–15:28 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Acquisition via LinkedIn and Unit Economics Nathan computes the LTV payback timeline to 29 months on the fly before breezing through the Famous Five. Steven politely corrects Nathan's guess of his favorite book title to Make It Stick.0:00–2:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Release Segment is an introductory monologue and book promotion by the host. Per scoring guidelines, host and guest scores are zeroed out.2:14–4:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Steven Rhyne's Background and Conveyor's Inception Nathan introduces Steven and asks about the company's timeline and product evolution from 2009 to 2016. Steven smoothly details Conveyor's origins and micro-learning value proposition in an agreeable tone.4:52–8:53 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Transitioning Upmarket to Enterprise SaaS Subscriptions Nathan digs into ARR numbers, quickly deducing pure-play SaaS figures and calculating the $700 monthly ARPU. Steven readily validates the numbers and explains their deliberate move upmarket to enterprise clients.8:54–12:06 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapping Philosophy and Global Remote Team Nathan rigorously drills down into churn metrics, demanding clarification on whether figures represent logo or revenue churn and net versus gross. Steven clarifies the definitions and explains how onboarding support cut revenue churn from 15% to 7%.12:07–15:28 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Acquisition via LinkedIn and Unit Economics Nathan computes the LTV payback timeline to 29 months on the fly before breezing through the Famous Five. Steven politely corrects Nathan's guess of his favorite book title to Make It Stick.0:00–2:12 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Release Segment is an introductory monologue and book promotion by the host. Per scoring guidelines, host and guest scores are zeroed out.2:14–4:51 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Steven Rhyne's Background and Conveyor's Inception Nathan introduces Steven and asks about the company's timeline and product evolution from 2009 to 2016. Steven smoothly details Conveyor's origins and micro-learning value proposition in an agreeable tone.4:52–8:53 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Transitioning Upmarket to Enterprise SaaS Subscriptions Nathan digs into ARR numbers, quickly deducing pure-play SaaS figures and calculating the $700 monthly ARPU. Steven readily validates the numbers and explains their deliberate move upmarket to enterprise clients.8:54–12:06 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Bootstrapping Philosophy and Global Remote Team Nathan rigorously drills down into churn metrics, demanding clarification on whether figures represent logo or revenue churn and net versus gross. Steven clarifies the definitions and explains how onboarding support cut revenue churn from 15% to 7%.12:07–15:28 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Customer Acquisition via LinkedIn and Unit Economics Nathan computes the LTV payback timeline to 29 months on the fly before breezing through the Famous Five. Steven politely corrects Nathan's guess of his favorite book title to Make It Stick.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 90.1% · guest 9.9%0:00 · Nathan 90.1% · guest 9.9%3:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%3:00 · Nathan 22.4% · guest 77.6%6:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%6:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%9:00 · Nathan 23.6% · guest 76.4%9:00 · Nathan 23.6% · guest 76.4%12:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%12:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%15:00 · Nathan 65.5% · guest 34.5%15:00 · Nathan 65.5% · guest 34.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:54 Steven corrects book title

When Nathan mistakes his recommended book for Made to Stick, Steven promptly corrects him to Make It Stick.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:45 Nathan presses for churn metric precision

Nathan refuses ambiguity around the 15% churn stat, rapidly firing questions to verify if it is annual or monthly, and net or gross.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:45 Steven explains upmarket adoption dynamics

Steven educates Nathan on why solo corporate trainers struggled with setup time, creating an organic lead funnel into Fortune 500 enterprise contracts.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 5:48 Nathan computes SaaS metrics instantly

Nathan displays sharp domain mastery by subtracting professional services, isolating pure SaaS ARR, and calculating exact average monthly account revenue.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Nathan Latka Promotes Bestselling Book Release 0000 Segment is an introductory monologue and book promotion by the host. Per scoring guidelines, host and guest scores are zeroed out.
Steven Rhyne's Background and Conveyor's Inception 5212 Nathan introduces Steven and asks about the company's timeline and product evolution from 2009 to 2016. Steven smoothly details Conveyor's origins and micro-learning value proposition in an agreeable tone.
Transitioning Upmarket to Enterprise SaaS Subscriptions 7214 Nathan digs into ARR numbers, quickly deducing pure-play SaaS figures and calculating the $700 monthly ARPU. Steven readily validates the numbers and explains their deliberate move upmarket to enterprise clients.
Bootstrapping Philosophy and Global Remote Team 7325 Nathan rigorously drills down into churn metrics, demanding clarification on whether figures represent logo or revenue churn and net versus gross. Steven clarifies the definitions and explains how onboarding support cut revenue churn from 15% to 7%.
Customer Acquisition via LinkedIn and Unit Economics 6322 Nathan computes the LTV payback timeline to 29 months on the fly before breezing through the Famous Five. Steven politely corrects Nathan's guess of his favorite book title to Make It Stick.

Statements from this episode (11)

Insight
Rhyne: Traditional MOOCs Suffer Low Engagement Because of Format
“Typically like a WordPress, large MOOC with lots of units, and they had really bad engagement on those courses. Simply not because of how they built it, but because of The format.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 4:26
Disclosure
Rhyne: Conveyor shrunk customer base to 100 while moving upmarket
“I told customers have actually shrunk because we're going more up market. So we're only at about a hundred customers right now.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 5:16
Disclosure
Rhyne: Conveyor has reached about $845k in ARR
“So revenue ARR is about eight, 45.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 5:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Rhyne: Conveyor stood at roughly $500k ARR one year ago
“A year ago we were at about 500.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 8:23
Disclosure
Rhyne: Conveyor has never taken debt, funding growth via customer profits
“We've never taken a debt, you know, debt or Borrowed any money. And then we've been funding this with the profits from our largest customers, so.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 9:25
Insight
Rhyne: Micro-agencies offer immediate team cohesion over hiring individual freelancers
“I tend to like working with these micro agencies. So it's like one or two developers, maybe a designer developer team. They tend to work really well together. So you get that cohesiveness right off the bat, rather than trying to find your own designer, find yo…”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 10:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Rhyne: Conveyor's monthly net revenue churn averaged 7% in 2019
“And this year it's averaged seven percent.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 11:04
Insight
Rhyne: Choosing the right customers matters more for churn than product improvements
“I think the biggest thing, not just product improvements and onboarding and all that, but the customers that you hire.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 11:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Conveyor's CAC payback period is under one month
“Would you say it's like less than a month? Yeah, for sure.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 12:44
Disclosure
Conveyor assumes a $20,000 enterprise customer LTV
“We usually use the 20 grand LTV for looking at our CAC costs.”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 13:19
Disclosure
Rhyne: 'Make It Stick' Heavily Influenced Conveyor's Product Direction
“Make it stick. It's a science of successful learning. So it's a great book that's in our field. And it's one of the ones that influenced us the most with the direction we went with convey your”
Steven Rhyne May 2, 2019 ▶ 13:57
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