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May 30, 2019 · 20m · top-founders

1405 How ClickDimensions is using Microsoft Ecosytem To Drive to $40m in ARR

Mike Dickerson · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Nathan Latka interviews Mike Dickerson, CEO of ClickDimensions, exploring how the native Microsoft Dynamics marketing automation platform scaled to nearly $40 million in ARR through private equity backing, strong SaaS unit economics, and an incentivized partner reseller ecosystem.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 0.7 Nathan pushing back 1.5
05100:0010:0020:000:00–2:11 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes SaaStock East Conference This is a solo promo read and episode overview from Nathan Latka. Monologue rules apply, requiring all dynamic scores to remain at zero.2:12–5:53 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast Series Introduction Nathan introduces Mike Dickerson and validates the strategy of dominating a single niche channel within MarTech. Mike outlines ClickDimensions' bootstrapped origins and recent revenue trajectory in a collaborative atmosphere.5:53–11:10 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Microsoft Dynamics Partner Ecosystem and Sales Motion Nathan misunderstands the partner structure by assuming Microsoft Dynamics was the sole partner, leading Mike to educate him on the 650 long-tail system integrators. Mike also corrects Nathan's assumption about commission margins and explains how their software acts as deal fuel for large implementation contracts.11:10–14:26 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Churn Rates, Unit Economics, and Private Equity Structure Mike quickly catches Nathan's slip when calculating lifetime value ('six months' vs 'six years'). Later, Nathan displays solid domain expertise by detailing how SaaS PE LBO debt structures differ from traditional venture debt providers like Hercules or SaaS Capital.14:26–17:34 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Demographics, Channel Acquisition, and Global Footprint Nathan backs into the previously undisclosed CAC metric using LTV and ARPU, earning validation from Mike ('Pretty damn close'). Mike elaborates on winning customers early in their CRM migration lifecycle.17:34–20:11 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mike Dickerson A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Mike reflects on his age and the value of weekly reflection, followed by Nathan delivering the closing recap.0:00–2:11 · Guest teaching 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes SaaStock East Conference This is a solo promo read and episode overview from Nathan Latka. Monologue rules apply, requiring all dynamic scores to remain at zero.2:12–5:53 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast Series Introduction Nathan introduces Mike Dickerson and validates the strategy of dominating a single niche channel within MarTech. Mike outlines ClickDimensions' bootstrapped origins and recent revenue trajectory in a collaborative atmosphere.5:53–11:10 · Guest teaching 6/10 The Microsoft Dynamics Partner Ecosystem and Sales Motion Nathan misunderstands the partner structure by assuming Microsoft Dynamics was the sole partner, leading Mike to educate him on the 650 long-tail system integrators. Mike also corrects Nathan's assumption about commission margins and explains how their software acts as deal fuel for large implementation contracts.11:10–14:26 · Guest teaching 4/10 Churn Rates, Unit Economics, and Private Equity Structure Mike quickly catches Nathan's slip when calculating lifetime value ('six months' vs 'six years'). Later, Nathan displays solid domain expertise by detailing how SaaS PE LBO debt structures differ from traditional venture debt providers like Hercules or SaaS Capital.14:26–17:34 · Guest teaching 1/10 Customer Demographics, Channel Acquisition, and Global Footprint Nathan backs into the previously undisclosed CAC metric using LTV and ARPU, earning validation from Mike ('Pretty damn close'). Mike elaborates on winning customers early in their CRM migration lifecycle.17:34–20:11 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mike Dickerson A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Mike reflects on his age and the value of weekly reflection, followed by Nathan delivering the closing recap.0:00–2:11 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes SaaStock East Conference This is a solo promo read and episode overview from Nathan Latka. Monologue rules apply, requiring all dynamic scores to remain at zero.2:12–5:53 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast Series Introduction Nathan introduces Mike Dickerson and validates the strategy of dominating a single niche channel within MarTech. Mike outlines ClickDimensions' bootstrapped origins and recent revenue trajectory in a collaborative atmosphere.5:53–11:10 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Microsoft Dynamics Partner Ecosystem and Sales Motion Nathan misunderstands the partner structure by assuming Microsoft Dynamics was the sole partner, leading Mike to educate him on the 650 long-tail system integrators. Mike also corrects Nathan's assumption about commission margins and explains how their software acts as deal fuel for large implementation contracts.11:10–14:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Churn Rates, Unit Economics, and Private Equity Structure Mike quickly catches Nathan's slip when calculating lifetime value ('six months' vs 'six years'). Later, Nathan displays solid domain expertise by detailing how SaaS PE LBO debt structures differ from traditional venture debt providers like Hercules or SaaS Capital.14:26–17:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Customer Demographics, Channel Acquisition, and Global Footprint Nathan backs into the previously undisclosed CAC metric using LTV and ARPU, earning validation from Mike ('Pretty damn close'). Mike elaborates on winning customers early in their CRM migration lifecycle.17:34–20:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mike Dickerson A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Mike reflects on his age and the value of weekly reflection, followed by Nathan delivering the closing recap.0:00–2:11 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes SaaStock East Conference This is a solo promo read and episode overview from Nathan Latka. Monologue rules apply, requiring all dynamic scores to remain at zero.2:12–5:53 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast Series Introduction Nathan introduces Mike Dickerson and validates the strategy of dominating a single niche channel within MarTech. Mike outlines ClickDimensions' bootstrapped origins and recent revenue trajectory in a collaborative atmosphere.5:53–11:10 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Microsoft Dynamics Partner Ecosystem and Sales Motion Nathan misunderstands the partner structure by assuming Microsoft Dynamics was the sole partner, leading Mike to educate him on the 650 long-tail system integrators. Mike also corrects Nathan's assumption about commission margins and explains how their software acts as deal fuel for large implementation contracts.11:10–14:26 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Churn Rates, Unit Economics, and Private Equity Structure Mike quickly catches Nathan's slip when calculating lifetime value ('six months' vs 'six years'). Later, Nathan displays solid domain expertise by detailing how SaaS PE LBO debt structures differ from traditional venture debt providers like Hercules or SaaS Capital.14:26–17:34 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Customer Demographics, Channel Acquisition, and Global Footprint Nathan backs into the previously undisclosed CAC metric using LTV and ARPU, earning validation from Mike ('Pretty damn close'). Mike elaborates on winning customers early in their CRM migration lifecycle.17:34–20:11 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mike Dickerson A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Mike reflects on his age and the value of weekly reflection, followed by Nathan delivering the closing recap.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 97.5% · guest 2.5%0:00 · Nathan 97.5% · guest 2.5%3:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%3:00 · Nathan 36.4% · guest 63.6%6:00 · Nathan 12.1% · guest 87.9%6:00 · Nathan 12.1% · guest 87.9%9:00 · Nathan 7.1% · guest 92.9%9:00 · Nathan 7.1% · guest 92.9%12:00 · Nathan 40.2% · guest 59.8%12:00 · Nathan 40.2% · guest 59.8%15:00 · Nathan 20.2% · guest 79.8%15:00 · Nathan 20.2% · guest 79.8%18:00 · Nathan 54% · guest 46%18:00 · Nathan 54% · guest 46%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:20 Correction on LTV calculation

Mike immediately interrupts to correct Nathan when he accidentally states a 15% churn implies a six-month rather than a six-year lifetime value.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:43 Challenging the partner commission premise

Nathan bluntly challenges Mike's explanation of partner incentives with 'So there's no kickback,' prompting Mike to clarify the exact 21% cut.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:08 Educating host on long-tail Microsoft partner network

Mike clarifies Nathan's misconception that ClickDimensions only has one big partner by detailing the 7,000 Microsoft Dynamics partners and the long-tail nature of their 650 active SIs.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:37 Host outlines SaaS debt ecosystem

Nathan demonstrates command of SaaS capital structures by naming specific lenders and explaining the shift from traditional asset-backed LBO debt to recurring-revenue term loans.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Nathan Latka Promotes SaaStock East Conference 0000 This is a solo promo read and episode overview from Nathan Latka. Monologue rules apply, requiring all dynamic scores to remain at zero.
The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast Series Introduction 5201 Nathan introduces Mike Dickerson and validates the strategy of dominating a single niche channel within MarTech. Mike outlines ClickDimensions' bootstrapped origins and recent revenue trajectory in a collaborative atmosphere.
The Microsoft Dynamics Partner Ecosystem and Sales Motion 4623 Nathan misunderstands the partner structure by assuming Microsoft Dynamics was the sole partner, leading Mike to educate him on the 650 long-tail system integrators. Mike also corrects Nathan's assumption about commission margins and explains how their software acts as deal fuel for large implementation contracts.
Churn Rates, Unit Economics, and Private Equity Structure 7412 Mike quickly catches Nathan's slip when calculating lifetime value ('six months' vs 'six years'). Later, Nathan displays solid domain expertise by detailing how SaaS PE LBO debt structures differ from traditional venture debt providers like Hercules or SaaS Capital.
Customer Demographics, Channel Acquisition, and Global Footprint 6102 Nathan backs into the previously undisclosed CAC metric using LTV and ARPU, earning validation from Mike ('Pretty damn close'). Mike elaborates on winning customers early in their CRM migration lifecycle.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Mike Dickerson 3111 A standard Famous Five wrap-up where Mike reflects on his age and the value of weekly reflection, followed by Nathan delivering the closing recap.

Statements from this episode (10)

Insight
Latka: Monopolizing a single channel is most effective in crowded markets
“A lot of people overlook this, but I think the most effective thing you can do in a crowded market is find one channel and monopolize the heck out of it.”
Nathan Latka May 30, 2019 ▶ 4:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickDimensions reached $20M ARR and 2,800 customers with zero VC funding
“From that, without taking any venture capital, they built it up to a company that by the time I came in had, you know, 2800 customers and was doing almost twenty million dollars in run rate revenue.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 4:52
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Dickerson: ClickDimensions will reach about $40M in revenue in 2019
“Yeah, so we're, we'll do about forty million this year.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 5:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dickerson: ClickDimensions grew 36% to almost $31M in 2018
“We grew 36% last year to just, almost thirty-one million last year.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 5:17
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickDimensions operates at an LTV to CAC ratio of around 7x
“We're operating at about a seven X, which is pretty darn good.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 7:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickDimensions closed deals with 650 Microsoft Dynamics partners in 12 months
“There are 7000 Microsoft Dynamics partners who sell Dynamics, install Dynamics, configure it, migrate data, all of that kind of stuff. So those are essentially our sales force. And of those 650 did at least one deal with us in the last 12 months.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 8:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dickerson: ClickDimensions has about 15% annualized logo churn
“Yeah, so our churn's about 15%, which is higher than I'd like it to be.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 11:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ClickDimensions funds 36 percent annual SaaS growth entirely through bank debt
“So it's a very you know, again, that's a rare story to see a company that, that grows at 36% in a SaaS business that's profitable enough to be able to use bank debt to grow.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 12:58
Prediction Not checkable as stated
ClickDimensions projects annual ARPU to reach just under $11,000
“I think we're, I think we'll end up this year just under 11,000 dollars in average revenue per account.”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 14:47
Insight
ClickDimensions win rates peak during initial Microsoft Dynamics adoption
“Our sale at the moment really comes, and we win a disproportionate amount when somebody is in the early process of deciding to go to Microsoft Dynamics. We win a lot more in the front than if somebody's implemented Dynamics, and it's, you know, two years after…”
Mike Dickerson May 30, 2019 ▶ 15:26
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