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Dec 5, 2019 · 17m · top-founders

1594 The Main Reason He Took $1.5m Government Loan at 4% Instead of VC

Lars van Wieren · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this SaaS interview, Nathan Latka speaks with Starred founder Lars van Wieren about scaling his recruitment feedback platform to $150,000 in monthly recurring revenue across 250 enterprise accounts using a non-dilutive €1.5 million government innovation loan.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.4 Guest teaching 1.2 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 3.2
05100:0010:000:00–2:00 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Executive Summary and Key SaaS Metrics Overview Nathan delivers a dense quantitative executive summary covering Starred's key SaaS metrics before moving into standard baseline questions about the business model and launch timeline.2:00–4:18 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Profile, Candidate Experience Pivot, and Team Structure Nathan quickly computes MRR figures based on customer count and ACV, while Lars openly discusses their strategic pivot away from broad targeting to candidate experience.4:18–9:15 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Financing Starred: Government Innovation Loan and Monthly Burn Nathan aggressively drills down on the Dutch government loan terms and guides Lars through the calculation of net revenue retention versus annual churn when Lars misinterprets net retention.9:21–13:45 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Host Announcement: Growth Marketing Conference Promotion After the conference mid-roll promo, Nathan resumes drilling on expansion axes and payback period; Lars corrects Nathan when he mistakenly calculates the CAC figure as 900 dollars instead of 9,000.13:46–16:21 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Future Fundraising Strategy: Series A Equity versus Venture Debt Nathan pushes Lars on whether venture debt would be superior to equity dilution for Series A, but Lars defends taking VC equity to maximize growth speed before proceeding smoothly through the Famous Five.0:00–2:00 · Guest teaching 0/10 Executive Summary and Key SaaS Metrics Overview Nathan delivers a dense quantitative executive summary covering Starred's key SaaS metrics before moving into standard baseline questions about the business model and launch timeline.2:00–4:18 · Guest teaching 1/10 Customer Profile, Candidate Experience Pivot, and Team Structure Nathan quickly computes MRR figures based on customer count and ACV, while Lars openly discusses their strategic pivot away from broad targeting to candidate experience.4:18–9:15 · Guest teaching 1/10 Financing Starred: Government Innovation Loan and Monthly Burn Nathan aggressively drills down on the Dutch government loan terms and guides Lars through the calculation of net revenue retention versus annual churn when Lars misinterprets net retention.9:21–13:45 · Guest teaching 3/10 Host Announcement: Growth Marketing Conference Promotion After the conference mid-roll promo, Nathan resumes drilling on expansion axes and payback period; Lars corrects Nathan when he mistakenly calculates the CAC figure as 900 dollars instead of 9,000.13:46–16:21 · Guest teaching 1/10 Future Fundraising Strategy: Series A Equity versus Venture Debt Nathan pushes Lars on whether venture debt would be superior to equity dilution for Series A, but Lars defends taking VC equity to maximize growth speed before proceeding smoothly through the Famous Five.0:00–2:00 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Executive Summary and Key SaaS Metrics Overview Nathan delivers a dense quantitative executive summary covering Starred's key SaaS metrics before moving into standard baseline questions about the business model and launch timeline.2:00–4:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Profile, Candidate Experience Pivot, and Team Structure Nathan quickly computes MRR figures based on customer count and ACV, while Lars openly discusses their strategic pivot away from broad targeting to candidate experience.4:18–9:15 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Financing Starred: Government Innovation Loan and Monthly Burn Nathan aggressively drills down on the Dutch government loan terms and guides Lars through the calculation of net revenue retention versus annual churn when Lars misinterprets net retention.9:21–13:45 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Host Announcement: Growth Marketing Conference Promotion After the conference mid-roll promo, Nathan resumes drilling on expansion axes and payback period; Lars corrects Nathan when he mistakenly calculates the CAC figure as 900 dollars instead of 9,000.13:46–16:21 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Future Fundraising Strategy: Series A Equity versus Venture Debt Nathan pushes Lars on whether venture debt would be superior to equity dilution for Series A, but Lars defends taking VC equity to maximize growth speed before proceeding smoothly through the Famous Five.0:00–2:00 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Executive Summary and Key SaaS Metrics Overview Nathan delivers a dense quantitative executive summary covering Starred's key SaaS metrics before moving into standard baseline questions about the business model and launch timeline.2:00–4:18 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Customer Profile, Candidate Experience Pivot, and Team Structure Nathan quickly computes MRR figures based on customer count and ACV, while Lars openly discusses their strategic pivot away from broad targeting to candidate experience.4:18–9:15 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Financing Starred: Government Innovation Loan and Monthly Burn Nathan aggressively drills down on the Dutch government loan terms and guides Lars through the calculation of net revenue retention versus annual churn when Lars misinterprets net retention.9:21–13:45 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Host Announcement: Growth Marketing Conference Promotion After the conference mid-roll promo, Nathan resumes drilling on expansion axes and payback period; Lars corrects Nathan when he mistakenly calculates the CAC figure as 900 dollars instead of 9,000.13:46–16:21 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Future Fundraising Strategy: Series A Equity versus Venture Debt Nathan pushes Lars on whether venture debt would be superior to equity dilution for Series A, but Lars defends taking VC equity to maximize growth speed before proceeding smoothly through the Famous Five.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 41.6% · guest 58.4%0:00 · Nathan 41.6% · guest 58.4%3:00 · Nathan 24.8% · guest 75.2%3:00 · Nathan 24.8% · guest 75.2%6:00 · Nathan 28.8% · guest 71.2%6:00 · Nathan 28.8% · guest 71.2%9:00 · Nathan 78.4% · guest 21.6%9:00 · Nathan 78.4% · guest 21.6%12:00 · Nathan 38.9% · guest 61.1%12:00 · Nathan 38.9% · guest 61.1%15:00 · Nathan 60.7% · guest 39.3%15:00 · Nathan 60.7% · guest 39.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:11 Lars rejects prioritizing equity preservation over speed

Lars pushes back against Nathan's concern over equity dilution by stating he would rather know in five years if they will win than own all his equity in twenty years.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:35 Nathan refuses confused churn terminology

Nathan cuts through Lars's confusing response about zero percent net retention and technical debt to force a clear breakdown of churn and expansion percentages.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:27 Lars corrects Nathan's CAC arithmetic

When Nathan states that a 16-month payback equates to a 900 dollar spend, Lars swiftly corrects the math to 9,000 dollars.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:36 Nathan instructs guest on net revenue retention formula

Nathan walks through the precise mathematical mechanics of cohorts, gross churn, and expansion to demonstrate how net revenue retention exceeds 100 percent.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Executive Summary and Key SaaS Metrics Overview 6001 Nathan delivers a dense quantitative executive summary covering Starred's key SaaS metrics before moving into standard baseline questions about the business model and launch timeline.
Customer Profile, Candidate Experience Pivot, and Team Structure 6112 Nathan quickly computes MRR figures based on customer count and ACV, while Lars openly discusses their strategic pivot away from broad targeting to candidate experience.
Financing Starred: Government Innovation Loan and Monthly Burn 8116 Nathan aggressively drills down on the Dutch government loan terms and guides Lars through the calculation of net revenue retention versus annual churn when Lars misinterprets net retention.
Host Announcement: Growth Marketing Conference Promotion 6324 After the conference mid-roll promo, Nathan resumes drilling on expansion axes and payback period; Lars corrects Nathan when he mistakenly calculates the CAC figure as 900 dollars instead of 9,000.
Future Fundraising Strategy: Series A Equity versus Venture Debt 6123 Nathan pushes Lars on whether venture debt would be superior to equity dilution for Series A, but Lars defends taking VC equity to maximize growth speed before proceeding smoothly through the Famous Five.

Statements from this episode (12)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Starred charges its SaaS customers an average of 600 per month
“So it's a typically software as a service model, so we charge On average 600 per month.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 1:28
Disclosure
Starred scales customer base to 250 enterprise and tech clients
“We are working for 250 clients on the one hand for big corporates like Nestle Heineken DHL, but also for many tech companies like Spotify Deliveroo, Takeaway”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 2:03
Disclosure
Starred was generating approximately $100,000 in monthly revenue a year ago
“So a year ago we were around a hundred.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 3:35
Disclosure
Van Wieren took a 4% government loan backed by a personal warrant
“So on the one hand it's there's a warrant, so there's risk for me, but on the other hand, the interest is very low and you can use it. Four percent.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 4:40
Disclosure
Van Wieren: Starred secured a €1.5 million government loan
“1.5 million.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 4:51
Disclosure
Van Wieren: Starred raised €750,000 before its government loan
“So without the loan, it was about 750,000 euros.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 5:08
Disclosure
Starred burns $50,000 monthly but intends to accelerate its spending
“So now on average 50 grand per month. So that's, I think, okay, but it will accelerate.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 5:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Starred saw 30% response rates on early outbound email campaigns
“So when we were sending a hundred emails, we got like 30 replies.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 6:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Starred experiences roughly ten percent annual revenue churn
“Annually, like, 10%.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 8:57
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Spotify expanded its Starred usage from two countries to twenty
“For instance, Spotify, we first signed them in the Netherlands and Belgium, and they're now using it in like 20 countries.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 11:25
Disclosure
Starred currently misses its 12-month CAC payback goal due to over-investing
“So as, so what we would be willing to pay has, so we're aiming for that we that we can make the customer acquisition calls back in 12 months, but right now, and that's also what you're seeing when you're over investing. It's yeah, that, that's, that amount is …”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 12:01
Insight
Van Wieren prefers diluting equity to scale fast over retaining total ownership
“You don't want to dilute that much, but I rather now know within five years, hey, we'll start taking over the world or not, then in, in 20 years, and I keep all my equity.”
Lars van Wieren Dec 5, 2019 ▶ 15:17
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