StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Mar 7, 2020 · 17m · top-founders

1687 When Programmatic Bidding Reaches OTTs Like Sling, Roku, He Makes Money

Achilles Lagrave · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, Brandzuka CEO Achilles Lagrave explains how his platform democratizes programmatic video advertising on connected TV and OTT networks for long-tail businesses while scaling a high-margin targeting business model.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 38.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 3.6 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 4.2
05100:0010:000:00–4:25 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Podcast Preview and Company Highlights Nathan repeatedly asks how Brandzuka overrides traditional TV commercials, pressing on the technical execution. Achilles clarifies that they operate on OTT programmatic streams rather than linear broadcasts.4:25–6:40 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Democratizing Ad Tech for the Long Tail Market Achilles explains how Brandzuka provides a self-service programmatic platform for small businesses that large enterprise DSPs ignore. Nathan quickly synthesizes the enterprise vs long-tail no-touch sales differentiation.6:40–11:34 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Business Model and Variable Targeting Fee Structure Nathan relentlessly drills into unit economics, demanding to know the exact fee breakdown and markup percentage on ad spend. Achilles pushes back against the premise of a flat subscription or fixed margin, explaining their variable targeting fee structure.11:34–14:12 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Company Origins and Rapid Revenue Growth Trajectory Nathan immediately dissects the difference between gross spend volume and net revenue when Achilles provides revenue metrics. Achilles refuses to disclose exact take rates, acknowledging Nathan's knack for extraction.14:12–16:58 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Funding Rounds and Capital Valuation Achilles outlines Brandzuka's fundraising status, target valuation, and prospective expansion into Hulu. Nathan follows up with his rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.0:00–4:25 · Guest teaching 5/10 Podcast Preview and Company Highlights Nathan repeatedly asks how Brandzuka overrides traditional TV commercials, pressing on the technical execution. Achilles clarifies that they operate on OTT programmatic streams rather than linear broadcasts.4:25–6:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Democratizing Ad Tech for the Long Tail Market Achilles explains how Brandzuka provides a self-service programmatic platform for small businesses that large enterprise DSPs ignore. Nathan quickly synthesizes the enterprise vs long-tail no-touch sales differentiation.6:40–11:34 · Guest teaching 4/10 Business Model and Variable Targeting Fee Structure Nathan relentlessly drills into unit economics, demanding to know the exact fee breakdown and markup percentage on ad spend. Achilles pushes back against the premise of a flat subscription or fixed margin, explaining their variable targeting fee structure.11:34–14:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Company Origins and Rapid Revenue Growth Trajectory Nathan immediately dissects the difference between gross spend volume and net revenue when Achilles provides revenue metrics. Achilles refuses to disclose exact take rates, acknowledging Nathan's knack for extraction.14:12–16:58 · Guest teaching 4/10 Funding Rounds and Capital Valuation Achilles outlines Brandzuka's fundraising status, target valuation, and prospective expansion into Hulu. Nathan follows up with his rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.0:00–4:25 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Podcast Preview and Company Highlights Nathan repeatedly asks how Brandzuka overrides traditional TV commercials, pressing on the technical execution. Achilles clarifies that they operate on OTT programmatic streams rather than linear broadcasts.4:25–6:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Democratizing Ad Tech for the Long Tail Market Achilles explains how Brandzuka provides a self-service programmatic platform for small businesses that large enterprise DSPs ignore. Nathan quickly synthesizes the enterprise vs long-tail no-touch sales differentiation.6:40–11:34 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Business Model and Variable Targeting Fee Structure Nathan relentlessly drills into unit economics, demanding to know the exact fee breakdown and markup percentage on ad spend. Achilles pushes back against the premise of a flat subscription or fixed margin, explaining their variable targeting fee structure.11:34–14:12 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Company Origins and Rapid Revenue Growth Trajectory Nathan immediately dissects the difference between gross spend volume and net revenue when Achilles provides revenue metrics. Achilles refuses to disclose exact take rates, acknowledging Nathan's knack for extraction.14:12–16:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Funding Rounds and Capital Valuation Achilles outlines Brandzuka's fundraising status, target valuation, and prospective expansion into Hulu. Nathan follows up with his rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.0:00–4:25 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Podcast Preview and Company Highlights Nathan repeatedly asks how Brandzuka overrides traditional TV commercials, pressing on the technical execution. Achilles clarifies that they operate on OTT programmatic streams rather than linear broadcasts.4:25–6:40 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Democratizing Ad Tech for the Long Tail Market Achilles explains how Brandzuka provides a self-service programmatic platform for small businesses that large enterprise DSPs ignore. Nathan quickly synthesizes the enterprise vs long-tail no-touch sales differentiation.6:40–11:34 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Business Model and Variable Targeting Fee Structure Nathan relentlessly drills into unit economics, demanding to know the exact fee breakdown and markup percentage on ad spend. Achilles pushes back against the premise of a flat subscription or fixed margin, explaining their variable targeting fee structure.11:34–14:12 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Company Origins and Rapid Revenue Growth Trajectory Nathan immediately dissects the difference between gross spend volume and net revenue when Achilles provides revenue metrics. Achilles refuses to disclose exact take rates, acknowledging Nathan's knack for extraction.14:12–16:58 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Funding Rounds and Capital Valuation Achilles outlines Brandzuka's fundraising status, target valuation, and prospective expansion into Hulu. Nathan follows up with his rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 55.4% · guest 44.6%0:00 · Nathan 55.4% · guest 44.6%3:00 · Nathan 25.7% · guest 74.3%3:00 · Nathan 25.7% · guest 74.3%6:00 · Nathan 12.8% · guest 87.2%6:00 · Nathan 12.8% · guest 87.2%9:00 · Nathan 42.4% · guest 57.6%9:00 · Nathan 42.4% · guest 57.6%12:00 · Nathan 43.7% · guest 56.3%12:00 · Nathan 43.7% · guest 56.3%15:00 · Nathan 55.2% · guest 44.8%15:00 · Nathan 55.2% · guest 44.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:32 Refusing flat margin framing

Achilles firmly corrects Nathan's assumption that Brandzuka takes a flat percentage cut, insisting the take rate varies between zero and thirty percent based entirely on targeting depth.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:38 Insisting on unit economics breakdown

Nathan interrupts the conceptual explanation to enforce a concrete dollar-for-dollar breakdown of a hypothetical hundred-dollar ad spend.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:49 Explaining linear versus programmatic OTT

Achilles corrects Nathan's misconception about hijacking linear network broadcasts, educating him on how programmatic ad insertion functions exclusively in OTT streaming environments.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:10 Deconstructing the data-margin mechanism

Nathan demonstrates full comprehension by laying out precisely how Brandzuka monetizes through proprietary data layers layered on top of commodity CPM inventory.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Podcast Preview and Company Highlights 4525 Nathan repeatedly asks how Brandzuka overrides traditional TV commercials, pressing on the technical execution. Achilles clarifies that they operate on OTT programmatic streams rather than linear broadcasts.
Democratizing Ad Tech for the Long Tail Market 5312 Achilles explains how Brandzuka provides a self-service programmatic platform for small businesses that large enterprise DSPs ignore. Nathan quickly synthesizes the enterprise vs long-tail no-touch sales differentiation.
Business Model and Variable Targeting Fee Structure 6437 Nathan relentlessly drills into unit economics, demanding to know the exact fee breakdown and markup percentage on ad spend. Achilles pushes back against the premise of a flat subscription or fixed margin, explaining their variable targeting fee structure.
Company Origins and Rapid Revenue Growth Trajectory 5225 Nathan immediately dissects the difference between gross spend volume and net revenue when Achilles provides revenue metrics. Achilles refuses to disclose exact take rates, acknowledging Nathan's knack for extraction.
Funding Rounds and Capital Valuation 4412 Achilles outlines Brandzuka's fundraising status, target valuation, and prospective expansion into Hulu. Nathan follows up with his rapid-fire Famous Five questionnaire.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Supported
Brandzuka built the first self-service TV ad platform for $5 daily
“To this point, this space has been serviced by enterprise DSPs such as Rocket Fuel, AppNexus, and the Trade Desk. These guys build very high-end pieces pieces of software that allow professional media buyers at large media agencies to transact media in this wa…”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 5:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Large agencies like Starcom require millions in quarterly ad spend
“When you go out to a large agency like Starcom, unless you have a quarterly spend that's literally in the millions of dollars, there's nothing those media agencies can do for you.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 5:57
Insight
Self-service ad platforms cannot monetize long-tail advertisers via subscriptions
“You can't monetize the long tail through subscriptions. You can't monetize the long tail through flat fees. It just does not It does not set the right relationship with the end user and what the end user is trying to achieve, which is performance.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 7:11
Assertion Contradicted
Sling charges an average of one cent per impression for OTT ads
“So on a per impression on average you're looking at about a penny.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 9:38
Disclosure
Brandzuka charges 20% to 30% of spend for hyper-targeted audience campaigns
“So if you apply no targeting, if you apply no targeting, there's no monetization for Brandsuka. If you apply every bell and whistle to hyper target an audience, that can be 20, 30% in targeting cost.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 10:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Brandzuka hit 25,000 users and $1.5M in gross volume in 2016
“2016, we scaled the platform to 25,000 users across a 110 countries and did a million and a half.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 12:56
Disclosure
Brandzuka is raising a $7 million funding round
“We are raising seven.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 14:31
Prediction Not publicly verifiable
Brandzuka expects valuation north of $20 million for series round
“Well, it's going to be our expectation is, is just going to be north of 20.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 14:37
Prediction Held up
Lagrave: Netflix will eventually have to adopt advertising for monetization
“We believe that Netflix will need to address a monetization fear through advertising at some point, but that's up to the good folks at Netflix.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 15:14
Assertion Supported
Lagrave: Hulu native ad minimums range from $50,000 to $100,000 upfront
“I think their minimum range is from 50,000 to a 100,000 upfront.”
Achilles Lagrave Mar 7, 2020 ▶ 15:34
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more