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Apr 11, 2020 · 21m · top-founders

1722 "How $2m+ Enterprise Email SaaS Tool Plans To Survive COVID "

Pierce Ujjainwalla · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Pierce Ujjainwalla, founder and CEO of Knack, exploring how the bootstrapped Canadian SaaS company transitioned upmarket to enterprise clients, doubled usage during COVID-19, and achieved 100 percent year-over-year revenue growth.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 2.4 Nathan pushing back 3.9
05100:0010:0020:000:00–3:17 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Podcast Schedule Update and Call for iTunes Reviews The segment begins with a solo host update and solicitation of iTunes reviews before introducing Pierce and inquiring about Knack's differentiation from Marketo.3:18–6:57 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Transitioning to Platform Agnosticism and Enterprise Focus Latka presses Pierce persistently on his exact customer count after transitioning upmarket, refusing to accept vague answers while endorsing the overall strategic pivot.6:58–9:19 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Pricing Strategy and Increasing Average Selling Price Latka challenges Pierce's pricing logic by arguing that churn under grandfathered terms indicates a product issue, prompting Pierce to clarify the exact churn mechanics across legacy tiers.9:20–11:32 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Sales Team Structure and Shift to Outbound When Pierce deflects giving exact ASP numbers and tells Latka to estimate, Latka sarcastically pushes back before dissecting the sales team quota structure.11:32–14:00 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 COVID-19 Impact and Resilience of Bootstrapped SaaS Pierce discusses early COVID-19 dynamics, noting email creation doubled on their platform, while Latka underscores the resilience of bootstrapped SaaS cash flows.14:01–16:51 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Broadening Use Cases and Accessing Canadian R&D Grants Latka demonstrates solid domain expertise regarding Canadian startup funding mechanisms, immediately connecting IRAP to SR&ED tax credits while Pierce explains the project-based distinctions.16:52–18:27 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Revenue Outlook and Mitigating Adobe Summit Cancellation Pierce details how Knack maintained its 100% year-over-year growth target despite the cancellation of their primary pipeline driver, the Adobe Summit, by pivoting to digital channels.0:00–3:17 · Guest teaching 2/10 Podcast Schedule Update and Call for iTunes Reviews The segment begins with a solo host update and solicitation of iTunes reviews before introducing Pierce and inquiring about Knack's differentiation from Marketo.3:18–6:57 · Guest teaching 3/10 Transitioning to Platform Agnosticism and Enterprise Focus Latka presses Pierce persistently on his exact customer count after transitioning upmarket, refusing to accept vague answers while endorsing the overall strategic pivot.6:58–9:19 · Guest teaching 5/10 Pricing Strategy and Increasing Average Selling Price Latka challenges Pierce's pricing logic by arguing that churn under grandfathered terms indicates a product issue, prompting Pierce to clarify the exact churn mechanics across legacy tiers.9:20–11:32 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sales Team Structure and Shift to Outbound When Pierce deflects giving exact ASP numbers and tells Latka to estimate, Latka sarcastically pushes back before dissecting the sales team quota structure.11:32–14:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 COVID-19 Impact and Resilience of Bootstrapped SaaS Pierce discusses early COVID-19 dynamics, noting email creation doubled on their platform, while Latka underscores the resilience of bootstrapped SaaS cash flows.14:01–16:51 · Guest teaching 4/10 Broadening Use Cases and Accessing Canadian R&D Grants Latka demonstrates solid domain expertise regarding Canadian startup funding mechanisms, immediately connecting IRAP to SR&ED tax credits while Pierce explains the project-based distinctions.16:52–18:27 · Guest teaching 2/10 Revenue Outlook and Mitigating Adobe Summit Cancellation Pierce details how Knack maintained its 100% year-over-year growth target despite the cancellation of their primary pipeline driver, the Adobe Summit, by pivoting to digital channels.0:00–3:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Podcast Schedule Update and Call for iTunes Reviews The segment begins with a solo host update and solicitation of iTunes reviews before introducing Pierce and inquiring about Knack's differentiation from Marketo.3:18–6:57 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Transitioning to Platform Agnosticism and Enterprise Focus Latka presses Pierce persistently on his exact customer count after transitioning upmarket, refusing to accept vague answers while endorsing the overall strategic pivot.6:58–9:19 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Pricing Strategy and Increasing Average Selling Price Latka challenges Pierce's pricing logic by arguing that churn under grandfathered terms indicates a product issue, prompting Pierce to clarify the exact churn mechanics across legacy tiers.9:20–11:32 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Sales Team Structure and Shift to Outbound When Pierce deflects giving exact ASP numbers and tells Latka to estimate, Latka sarcastically pushes back before dissecting the sales team quota structure.11:32–14:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 COVID-19 Impact and Resilience of Bootstrapped SaaS Pierce discusses early COVID-19 dynamics, noting email creation doubled on their platform, while Latka underscores the resilience of bootstrapped SaaS cash flows.14:01–16:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Broadening Use Cases and Accessing Canadian R&D Grants Latka demonstrates solid domain expertise regarding Canadian startup funding mechanisms, immediately connecting IRAP to SR&ED tax credits while Pierce explains the project-based distinctions.16:52–18:27 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Outlook and Mitigating Adobe Summit Cancellation Pierce details how Knack maintained its 100% year-over-year growth target despite the cancellation of their primary pipeline driver, the Adobe Summit, by pivoting to digital channels.0:00–3:17 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Podcast Schedule Update and Call for iTunes Reviews The segment begins with a solo host update and solicitation of iTunes reviews before introducing Pierce and inquiring about Knack's differentiation from Marketo.3:18–6:57 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Transitioning to Platform Agnosticism and Enterprise Focus Latka presses Pierce persistently on his exact customer count after transitioning upmarket, refusing to accept vague answers while endorsing the overall strategic pivot.6:58–9:19 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Pricing Strategy and Increasing Average Selling Price Latka challenges Pierce's pricing logic by arguing that churn under grandfathered terms indicates a product issue, prompting Pierce to clarify the exact churn mechanics across legacy tiers.9:20–11:32 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Sales Team Structure and Shift to Outbound When Pierce deflects giving exact ASP numbers and tells Latka to estimate, Latka sarcastically pushes back before dissecting the sales team quota structure.11:32–14:00 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 COVID-19 Impact and Resilience of Bootstrapped SaaS Pierce discusses early COVID-19 dynamics, noting email creation doubled on their platform, while Latka underscores the resilience of bootstrapped SaaS cash flows.14:01–16:51 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Broadening Use Cases and Accessing Canadian R&D Grants Latka demonstrates solid domain expertise regarding Canadian startup funding mechanisms, immediately connecting IRAP to SR&ED tax credits while Pierce explains the project-based distinctions.16:52–18:27 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Revenue Outlook and Mitigating Adobe Summit Cancellation Pierce details how Knack maintained its 100% year-over-year growth target despite the cancellation of their primary pipeline driver, the Adobe Summit, by pivoting to digital channels.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 78% · guest 22%0:00 · Nathan 78% · guest 22%3:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%3:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%6:00 · Nathan 25% · guest 75%6:00 · Nathan 25% · guest 75%9:00 · Nathan 59.2% · guest 40.8%9:00 · Nathan 59.2% · guest 40.8%12:00 · Nathan 19% · guest 81%12:00 · Nathan 19% · guest 81%15:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%15:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%18:00 · Nathan 52.7% · guest 47.3%18:00 · Nathan 52.7% · guest 47.3%21:00 · Nathan 49.4% · guest 50.6%21:00 · Nathan 49.4% · guest 50.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:23 Deflection on ASP disclosure

Pierce pushes back against Latka's request for exact ASP figures, telling the host to come up with his own estimations.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:38 Latka demands exact customer count

Latka cuts through Pierce's generalizations about losing customers by insisting on an actual updated metric.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:07 Clarifying legacy cohort retention mechanics

Pierce educates Latka on the distinction between recurring $99 accounts and one-time template buyers who naturally churned after purchasing.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:32 Latka calls out guest deflection

Latka sarcastically fires back at Pierce's suggestion to guess numbers, noting he wouldn't need a guest if he wanted to talk to himself.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Podcast Schedule Update and Call for iTunes Reviews 4212 The segment begins with a solo host update and solicitation of iTunes reviews before introducing Pierce and inquiring about Knack's differentiation from Marketo.
Transitioning to Platform Agnosticism and Enterprise Focus 6347 Latka presses Pierce persistently on his exact customer count after transitioning upmarket, refusing to accept vague answers while endorsing the overall strategic pivot.
Pricing Strategy and Increasing Average Selling Price 7546 Latka challenges Pierce's pricing logic by arguing that churn under grandfathered terms indicates a product issue, prompting Pierce to clarify the exact churn mechanics across legacy tiers.
Sales Team Structure and Shift to Outbound 5245 When Pierce deflects giving exact ASP numbers and tells Latka to estimate, Latka sarcastically pushes back before dissecting the sales team quota structure.
COVID-19 Impact and Resilience of Bootstrapped SaaS 4312 Pierce discusses early COVID-19 dynamics, noting email creation doubled on their platform, while Latka underscores the resilience of bootstrapped SaaS cash flows.
Broadening Use Cases and Accessing Canadian R&D Grants 7412 Latka demonstrates solid domain expertise regarding Canadian startup funding mechanisms, immediately connecting IRAP to SR&ED tax credits while Pierce explains the project-based distinctions.
Revenue Outlook and Mitigating Adobe Summit Cancellation 4223 Pierce details how Knack maintained its 100% year-over-year growth target despite the cancellation of their primary pipeline driver, the Adobe Summit, by pivoting to digital channels.

Statements from this episode (10)

Disclosure
Knak initially focused on Marketo before expanding to a broader market
“When we started NAC, it was really about helping Marketo customers with it, but the more we got into it, we realized this is a way more widespread issue than just Marketo.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 2:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Knack generates growth via integrations with Salesforce, Pardot, and Oracle
“We're seeing growth Salesforce marketing cloud, Pardot Oracle responses. And then we're also just discovering all these new platforms, a lot of in-house platforms that our enterprise customers work with.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 3:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Knack maintains net revenue churn under two percent among enterprise customers
“Whereas our enterprise customers, we've got net revenue turn of under two percent now.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 5:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Knack retains between 100 and 600 customers after dropping low-tier plans
“So we still are in the hundreds of customers. Okay. So that's what I can tell you. Okay. It's not 600 anymore. Yeah. It's significantly less than that, but north of a hundred.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 6:43
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Knack's 100% YoY revenue growth is driven by ASPs exceeding $6,000
“Well, last time we spoke, we said our ASP was 6000 a year. So 500 a month. And yes, I can confirm that our ASP is significantly higher than that, which is what's allowing us to grow at a hundred percent year over year.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 9:02
Disclosure
Knack grew entirely via inbound marketing until early 2020
“So up until two months ago, we've been a hundred percent inbound. So everyone that we've sold to has come to us through our website in an inbound manner. So up until a couple months ago, we hired our first outbound reps.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 10:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Knak's platform saw email creation double month-over-month early in the pandemic
“We actually looked at our platform's data last month and saw that We had double the amount of emails that have ever been built before month over month.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 12:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ujjainwalla claims no customers churned from Knak due to COVID-19
“We're happy to discuss that, but at this point, no one has tuned because of this.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 12:57
Disclosure
Knack prefers bootstrapping via Canadian government grants over raising venture capital
“We are still happy being bootstrapped. I think Canada has actually some amazing programs to help fund startup companies. IRAP is one of them. So we're able to access capital that way.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 15:27
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Ujjainwalla predicts Knack will achieve 100% year-over-year revenue growth in 2020
“What we're seeing in our pipeline and how we're seeing our deals close, we're keeping that same number again, and that's going to put us at again, a hundred percent year over year growth.”
Pierce Ujjainwalla Apr 11, 2020 ▶ 17:18
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