Jun 27, 2020 · 21m · top-founders

RightMessage Hits $360k Revenue, Co-Founders Going All In

Brennan Dunn · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview with Nathan Latka, RightMessage co-founder Brennan Dunn breaks down how the B2B SaaS platform reached $30,000 in monthly recurring revenue with a lean, profitable team while navigating customer churn. Dunn details his strategic decision to reject venture funding, transition away from side projects, and prioritize customer education and segmentation over rapid headcount expansion.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 35.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.3 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 2.5 Nathan pushing back 5.5
05100:0010:0020:001:41–3:55 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Overview of RightMessage and Dynamic Segmentation Software Nathan probes RightMessage's pricing metric, drawing parallels to his conversation with Noah Kagan about Sumo's struggle with impression-based pricing. Brennan explains that pricing is tied to unique visitors across their two feature tiers.3:56–6:28 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Audience Building and Concierge Launch Strategy Playbook Nathan breaks down Brennan's launch metrics, asking about traffic attribution and conversion math. Brennan explains how an info-product style open/close cart with concierge onboarding generated $8k in initial MRR from a 2,000-subscriber list.6:29–11:30 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Strategic Seed Capital and Achieving Sustainable SaaS Profitability Nathan pulls up RightMessage's public Baremetrics dashboard in real time to query revenue fluctuations and churn. Brennan educates Nathan on why personalization software fails without prior segmentation data, prompting their product pivot.11:31–15:11 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Lean Team Structure and Low-Overhead Customer Acquisition Nathan argues that raising capital increases testing velocity to discover product-market fit faster. Brennan firmly resists, stating that burning cash on a larger team before finding proper market positioning would only accelerate mistakes.15:11–18:06 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Runway Management and Diagnosing Customer Education Roadblocks Nathan aggressively challenges Brennan to hire more engineers to solve onboarding churn, forcing Brennan to disclose they only have $50k of cash left. Nathan frames their reluctance to spend as proof they do not yet know how to solve the education bottleneck.18:06–20:54 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Rejecting Acquisition and Transitioning 100% Full-Time When Brennan declines a hypothetical $700k cash buyout because of a profitable side business, Nathan calls out the safety net as a hindrance to entrepreneurial urgency. Brennan reveals he is transitioning full-time to RightMessage that exact week before moving to the Famous Five.1:41–3:55 · Guest teaching 3/10 Overview of RightMessage and Dynamic Segmentation Software Nathan probes RightMessage's pricing metric, drawing parallels to his conversation with Noah Kagan about Sumo's struggle with impression-based pricing. Brennan explains that pricing is tied to unique visitors across their two feature tiers.3:56–6:28 · Guest teaching 4/10 Audience Building and Concierge Launch Strategy Playbook Nathan breaks down Brennan's launch metrics, asking about traffic attribution and conversion math. Brennan explains how an info-product style open/close cart with concierge onboarding generated $8k in initial MRR from a 2,000-subscriber list.6:29–11:30 · Guest teaching 5/10 Strategic Seed Capital and Achieving Sustainable SaaS Profitability Nathan pulls up RightMessage's public Baremetrics dashboard in real time to query revenue fluctuations and churn. Brennan educates Nathan on why personalization software fails without prior segmentation data, prompting their product pivot.11:31–15:11 · Guest teaching 4/10 Lean Team Structure and Low-Overhead Customer Acquisition Nathan argues that raising capital increases testing velocity to discover product-market fit faster. Brennan firmly resists, stating that burning cash on a larger team before finding proper market positioning would only accelerate mistakes.15:11–18:06 · Guest teaching 5/10 Runway Management and Diagnosing Customer Education Roadblocks Nathan aggressively challenges Brennan to hire more engineers to solve onboarding churn, forcing Brennan to disclose they only have $50k of cash left. Nathan frames their reluctance to spend as proof they do not yet know how to solve the education bottleneck.18:06–20:54 · Guest teaching 3/10 Rejecting Acquisition and Transitioning 100% Full-Time When Brennan declines a hypothetical $700k cash buyout because of a profitable side business, Nathan calls out the safety net as a hindrance to entrepreneurial urgency. Brennan reveals he is transitioning full-time to RightMessage that exact week before moving to the Famous Five.1:41–3:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Overview of RightMessage and Dynamic Segmentation Software Nathan probes RightMessage's pricing metric, drawing parallels to his conversation with Noah Kagan about Sumo's struggle with impression-based pricing. Brennan explains that pricing is tied to unique visitors across their two feature tiers.3:56–6:28 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Audience Building and Concierge Launch Strategy Playbook Nathan breaks down Brennan's launch metrics, asking about traffic attribution and conversion math. Brennan explains how an info-product style open/close cart with concierge onboarding generated $8k in initial MRR from a 2,000-subscriber list.6:29–11:30 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Strategic Seed Capital and Achieving Sustainable SaaS Profitability Nathan pulls up RightMessage's public Baremetrics dashboard in real time to query revenue fluctuations and churn. Brennan educates Nathan on why personalization software fails without prior segmentation data, prompting their product pivot.11:31–15:11 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Lean Team Structure and Low-Overhead Customer Acquisition Nathan argues that raising capital increases testing velocity to discover product-market fit faster. Brennan firmly resists, stating that burning cash on a larger team before finding proper market positioning would only accelerate mistakes.15:11–18:06 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Runway Management and Diagnosing Customer Education Roadblocks Nathan aggressively challenges Brennan to hire more engineers to solve onboarding churn, forcing Brennan to disclose they only have $50k of cash left. Nathan frames their reluctance to spend as proof they do not yet know how to solve the education bottleneck.18:06–20:54 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Rejecting Acquisition and Transitioning 100% Full-Time When Brennan declines a hypothetical $700k cash buyout because of a profitable side business, Nathan calls out the safety net as a hindrance to entrepreneurial urgency. Brennan reveals he is transitioning full-time to RightMessage that exact week before moving to the Famous Five.1:41–3:55 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Overview of RightMessage and Dynamic Segmentation Software Nathan probes RightMessage's pricing metric, drawing parallels to his conversation with Noah Kagan about Sumo's struggle with impression-based pricing. Brennan explains that pricing is tied to unique visitors across their two feature tiers.3:56–6:28 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Audience Building and Concierge Launch Strategy Playbook Nathan breaks down Brennan's launch metrics, asking about traffic attribution and conversion math. Brennan explains how an info-product style open/close cart with concierge onboarding generated $8k in initial MRR from a 2,000-subscriber list.6:29–11:30 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Strategic Seed Capital and Achieving Sustainable SaaS Profitability Nathan pulls up RightMessage's public Baremetrics dashboard in real time to query revenue fluctuations and churn. Brennan educates Nathan on why personalization software fails without prior segmentation data, prompting their product pivot.11:31–15:11 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Lean Team Structure and Low-Overhead Customer Acquisition Nathan argues that raising capital increases testing velocity to discover product-market fit faster. Brennan firmly resists, stating that burning cash on a larger team before finding proper market positioning would only accelerate mistakes.15:11–18:06 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Runway Management and Diagnosing Customer Education Roadblocks Nathan aggressively challenges Brennan to hire more engineers to solve onboarding churn, forcing Brennan to disclose they only have $50k of cash left. Nathan frames their reluctance to spend as proof they do not yet know how to solve the education bottleneck.18:06–20:54 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Rejecting Acquisition and Transitioning 100% Full-Time When Brennan declines a hypothetical $700k cash buyout because of a profitable side business, Nathan calls out the safety net as a hindrance to entrepreneurial urgency. Brennan reveals he is transitioning full-time to RightMessage that exact week before moving to the Famous Five.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 53.8% · guest 46.2%0:00 · Nathan 53.8% · guest 46.2%3:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%3:00 · Nathan 32.2% · guest 67.8%6:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%6:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%9:00 · Nathan 13.7% · guest 86.3%9:00 · Nathan 13.7% · guest 86.3%12:00 · Nathan 29.3% · guest 70.7%12:00 · Nathan 29.3% · guest 70.7%15:00 · Nathan 29.8% · guest 70.2%15:00 · Nathan 29.8% · guest 70.2%18:00 · Nathan 46.1% · guest 53.9%18:00 · Nathan 46.1% · guest 53.9%21:00 · Nathan 98.3% · guest 1.7%21:00 · Nathan 98.3% · guest 1.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:52 Brennan rejects raising more capital

Brennan directly rejects Nathan's suggestion to raise money for experiments, arguing from past experience that throwing money at unproven positioning burns cash in the wrong direction.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 17:49 Nathan exposes the root education bottleneck

Nathan cuts through Brennan's reasoning, bluntly declaring that Brennan's hesitation to spend capital is simply an admission that he does not know how to solve the churn problem.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:06 Brennan explains why personalization requires segmentation

Brennan explains the core product flaw that caused high customer churn: customers could not personalize web experiences without first collecting self-segmentation data from their audience.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:44 Nathan unpacks the true financial runway constraint

Nathan corners Brennan on why he is not hiring developers to fix onboarding, extracting the confession that only $50k remains in the bank and recalculating their exact operational constraints.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Overview of RightMessage and Dynamic Segmentation Software 6314 Nathan probes RightMessage's pricing metric, drawing parallels to his conversation with Noah Kagan about Sumo's struggle with impression-based pricing. Brennan explains that pricing is tied to unique visitors across their two feature tiers.
Audience Building and Concierge Launch Strategy Playbook 5413 Nathan breaks down Brennan's launch metrics, asking about traffic attribution and conversion math. Brennan explains how an info-product style open/close cart with concierge onboarding generated $8k in initial MRR from a 2,000-subscriber list.
Strategic Seed Capital and Achieving Sustainable SaaS Profitability 6524 Nathan pulls up RightMessage's public Baremetrics dashboard in real time to query revenue fluctuations and churn. Brennan educates Nathan on why personalization software fails without prior segmentation data, prompting their product pivot.
Lean Team Structure and Low-Overhead Customer Acquisition 7447 Nathan argues that raising capital increases testing velocity to discover product-market fit faster. Brennan firmly resists, stating that burning cash on a larger team before finding proper market positioning would only accelerate mistakes.
Runway Management and Diagnosing Customer Education Roadblocks 8548 Nathan aggressively challenges Brennan to hire more engineers to solve onboarding churn, forcing Brennan to disclose they only have $50k of cash left. Nathan frames their reluctance to spend as proof they do not yet know how to solve the education bottleneck.
Rejecting Acquisition and Transitioning 100% Full-Time 6337 When Brennan declines a hypothetical $700k cash buyout because of a profitable side business, Nathan calls out the safety net as a hindrance to entrepreneurial urgency. Brennan reveals he is transitioning full-time to RightMessage that exact week before moving to the Famous Five.

Statements from this episode (17)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dunn: RightMessage ARPU is about $100 per month
“Well, our ARPU is about a hundred bucks a month, but plans start at 30, and we have people paying in a few hundreds a month.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 2:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dunn: RightMessage reached ~$8k MRR one week after launch
“And then we did a big launch kind of info product style when we went live sold annual plans that got us, I think to about eight K MR or thereabouts pretty much a week into it.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 4:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dunn: RightMessage launch sales came 100% from email list
“No affiliates. Yeah. It was a hundred percent in the list.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 5:22
Disclosure
RightMessage raised $500k from Nathan Barry, Ankur Nagpal, and Paul Singh
“We raised about a half a million from people like Nathan Berry of ConvertKit anchor of Teachable Paul Sing and others just friends of mine, frankly, who wanted to fund us.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 6:34
Disclosure
RightMessage reaches $30k MRR and generates $10k monthly profit
“Our total MRR at the moment is 30 K a month. Our, I mean, we're basically, our expenses are probably 20 K. So yeah, we're bringing about a 10 K a month profit.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 7:31
Disclosure
RightMessage has just under 300 customers
“Just shy of 300.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 7:44
Insight
Dunn: Website personalization cannot succeed without customer segmentation
“The big turn issue for us was we were selling personalization software. People bought into it, but you can't personalize without segmentation. So a lot of these companies came on board and they realized they didn't have the data that they needed to accurately …”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 9:06
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Dunn: RightMessage recorded 16% revenue churn over past year
“I mean, bare metrics is saying over the last year, revenue turned 16%.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 10:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
RightMessage has zero direct customer acquisition spend
“We haven't spent a dime on any hard costs like acquisition costs.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 11:38
Disclosure
RightMessage operates with no salespeople across a three-person team
“I mean, we don't, so we aren't in terms of sales, we don't have any sales people. It's just myself, co-founder, and we have a part-time designer.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 11:49
Opinion
Dunn: RightMessage has not yet hit true product-market fit
“I wouldn't say that we've hit product market fit in the sense that we have a really good way, a compelling way, Of showing somebody why they should switch from, say, Sumo or OptiMonster or whoever to us.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 13:08
Disclosure
Dunn: RightMessage will not raise capital or scale headcount yet
“We wouldn't raise money at this point or scale the team at this point because I think we're so right now we're so individually working together with our current customer base base and subscriber base to figure out Positioning wise, are we in the right place or…”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 14:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dunn: RightMessage has roughly $50k remaining of $500k raised
“We've burned through a good about, we have about 50 left.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 15:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dunn: RightMessage churn is driven by customer education, not disbelief
“We know why we're churning. It's an education problem. We've asked people, we've talked to people, and what we're being told again and again is we completely, 100% believe in The outcome that you're promising us, but we need help on the strategic side.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 17:08
Disclosure
Dunn: RightMessage would probably turn down a $700k cash buyout
“Probably not, to be honest.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 18:15
Assertion Supported
Dunn: ConvertKit only worked out once Nathan Barry went all in
“I mean, he was at the same point with ConvertKit where he was splitting his time. And when he went all in on ConvertKit, that's when everything started to work out.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 19:25
What-if
Dunn regrets dropping out of school to start a business
“Honestly, I dropped out of school to start a business. I kind of wish I would have stayed in just cause I'm not going to get that time again.”
Brennan Dunn Jun 27, 2020 ▶ 20:48
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