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Dec 19, 2020 · 17m · top-founders

WhatConverts Hits $2.1m Revenue, $300k Profits in Call Tracking Space

Michael Cooney · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken Eric Yuan / Vivek · 6s spoken Frank Bien · 4s spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this interview with Nathan Latka, WhatConverts co-founder Michael Cooney explains how the bootstrapped call tracking SaaS scaled to $2.1 million in annual recurring revenue and $300,000 in net profit. Cooney discusses the platform's multi-tiered agency pricing, strong unit economics, and transparent cash profit-sharing model for employees.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 3.4
05100:0010:000:00–4:05 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Episode Hook: Michael Cooney on Profit Sharing Latka introduces the guest and digs into the founding story, asking about equity split and MVP funding without friction.4:05–7:13 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 SaaS Monetization, Account Structure, and Agency Expansion Latka presses on customer concentration and ARPU, playfully teasing Cooney about giving a politician answer before probing agency structure.7:14–10:36 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Monthly Revenue, Profits, and Employee Profit-Sharing Structure Latka tries to roleplay and drill down into exact profit-sharing percentages per employee, but Cooney holds his boundary and declines to share sensitive figures.10:36–16:00 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Scaling Strategy, Sales Hiring, Churn, and Valuation Latka breaks down how churn cohorts and net revenue retention should be mathematically structured when Cooney admits he does not track exact NRR metrics.16:00–17:35 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Famous Five Questions and Final Recap Standard rapid-fire famous five questions followed by Latka summarizing WhatConverts metrics and business model in a closing recap.0:00–4:05 · Guest teaching 1/10 Episode Hook: Michael Cooney on Profit Sharing Latka introduces the guest and digs into the founding story, asking about equity split and MVP funding without friction.4:05–7:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 SaaS Monetization, Account Structure, and Agency Expansion Latka presses on customer concentration and ARPU, playfully teasing Cooney about giving a politician answer before probing agency structure.7:14–10:36 · Guest teaching 2/10 Monthly Revenue, Profits, and Employee Profit-Sharing Structure Latka tries to roleplay and drill down into exact profit-sharing percentages per employee, but Cooney holds his boundary and declines to share sensitive figures.10:36–16:00 · Guest teaching 2/10 Scaling Strategy, Sales Hiring, Churn, and Valuation Latka breaks down how churn cohorts and net revenue retention should be mathematically structured when Cooney admits he does not track exact NRR metrics.16:00–17:35 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Questions and Final Recap Standard rapid-fire famous five questions followed by Latka summarizing WhatConverts metrics and business model in a closing recap.0:00–4:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Episode Hook: Michael Cooney on Profit Sharing Latka introduces the guest and digs into the founding story, asking about equity split and MVP funding without friction.4:05–7:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 SaaS Monetization, Account Structure, and Agency Expansion Latka presses on customer concentration and ARPU, playfully teasing Cooney about giving a politician answer before probing agency structure.7:14–10:36 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Monthly Revenue, Profits, and Employee Profit-Sharing Structure Latka tries to roleplay and drill down into exact profit-sharing percentages per employee, but Cooney holds his boundary and declines to share sensitive figures.10:36–16:00 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Scaling Strategy, Sales Hiring, Churn, and Valuation Latka breaks down how churn cohorts and net revenue retention should be mathematically structured when Cooney admits he does not track exact NRR metrics.16:00–17:35 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Famous Five Questions and Final Recap Standard rapid-fire famous five questions followed by Latka summarizing WhatConverts metrics and business model in a closing recap.0:00–4:05 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Episode Hook: Michael Cooney on Profit Sharing Latka introduces the guest and digs into the founding story, asking about equity split and MVP funding without friction.4:05–7:13 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 SaaS Monetization, Account Structure, and Agency Expansion Latka presses on customer concentration and ARPU, playfully teasing Cooney about giving a politician answer before probing agency structure.7:14–10:36 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Monthly Revenue, Profits, and Employee Profit-Sharing Structure Latka tries to roleplay and drill down into exact profit-sharing percentages per employee, but Cooney holds his boundary and declines to share sensitive figures.10:36–16:00 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Scaling Strategy, Sales Hiring, Churn, and Valuation Latka breaks down how churn cohorts and net revenue retention should be mathematically structured when Cooney admits he does not track exact NRR metrics.16:00–17:35 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Questions and Final Recap Standard rapid-fire famous five questions followed by Latka summarizing WhatConverts metrics and business model in a closing recap.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 60.4% · guest 39.6%0:00 · Nathan 60.4% · guest 39.6%3:00 · Nathan 27.8% · guest 72.2%3:00 · Nathan 27.8% · guest 72.2%6:00 · Nathan 33.9% · guest 66.1%6:00 · Nathan 33.9% · guest 66.1%9:00 · Nathan 32.7% · guest 67.3%9:00 · Nathan 32.7% · guest 67.3%12:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%12:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%15:00 · Nathan 43.5% · guest 56.5%15:00 · Nathan 43.5% · guest 56.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:17 Guest sets boundary on compensation details

Cooney pushes back directly against Latka's roleplay prompt, stating clearly that he is uncomfortable revealing specific team profit distribution formulas.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:08 Latka presses for specific profit share amounts

Latka refuses to move on immediately from profit sharing, asking Cooney to walk through a hypothetical scenario of an employee's exact payout.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:08 Cooney corrects customer concentration assumption

When Latka assumes the top five customers make up roughly 80% of revenue, Cooney corrects him by noting they only account for 10% to 15%.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:36 Latka demonstrates SaaS cohort math

Latka lays out the exact formulas for cohort-based gross revenue churn and expansion to demonstrate how Net Revenue Retention should properly be measured.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Episode Hook: Michael Cooney on Profit Sharing 3111 Latka introduces the guest and digs into the founding story, asking about equity split and MVP funding without friction.
SaaS Monetization, Account Structure, and Agency Expansion 5324 Latka presses on customer concentration and ARPU, playfully teasing Cooney about giving a politician answer before probing agency structure.
Monthly Revenue, Profits, and Employee Profit-Sharing Structure 4245 Latka tries to roleplay and drill down into exact profit-sharing percentages per employee, but Cooney holds his boundary and declines to share sensitive figures.
Scaling Strategy, Sales Hiring, Churn, and Valuation 8226 Latka breaks down how churn cohorts and net revenue retention should be mathematically structured when Cooney admits he does not track exact NRR metrics.
Famous Five Questions and Final Recap 4111 Standard rapid-fire famous five questions followed by Latka summarizing WhatConverts metrics and business model in a closing recap.

Statements from this episode (13)

Disclosure
Cooney: WhatConverts burned zero cash building its MVP
“We, I mean, Jeremy kept consulting so we didn't burn any cash. I kept on running my agency. I had a team. So I've been, I love having a team because it allows you to do more things. So I was able to continue getting an income from the agency while we built Wha…”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 3:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
WhatConverts ARPU is $180 to $200 per month
“So we have customers from 30 dollars a month all the way up to several thousand dollars a month. But if you take the average across everyone, it's around one 80 to 200 dollars a month.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 4:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
WhatConverts largest customer contract exceeds $100K ACV
“Yeah north of a hundred grand.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 5:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
WhatConverts has over 1,000 direct paying customers
“So direct customers, you're looking at a little over a thousand.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 6:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
WhatConverts serves 15,000 end companies across 1,000 direct accounts
“Even though we have a thousand direct paying customers, you know, we serve 15,000 companies.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 6:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
WhatConverts generated nearly $180,000 in monthly revenue
“One's just under one 80.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 7:27
Prediction Not checkable as stated
WhatConverts expects to stay under $200,000 monthly revenue through late 2020
“Normally in November and December are flat months. October is a good month. So, I don't think we'll break through 200.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 7:36
Disclosure
Cooney: WhatConverts is completely bootstrapped without outside capital
“We bootstrapped.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 8:06
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Cooney: WhatConverts will finish 2020 with $300,000 in profit
“300,000.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 9:06
Opinion
Cooney: Cash profit-sharing is better than stock options that often yield nothing
“I mean, we look at, you know what's the stock shop, stock options or share options and all that, but We just found that as the income comes in and as we're profitable, we wanted to go direct to them. I'm tired of the stories of people that get stock options an…”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 10:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cooney: WhatConverts employs an eight-person team
“There's eight.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 10:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cooney: WhatConverts operates with two engineers
“Two.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 10:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cooney: WhatConverts has a monthly customer churn rate of around 1.8%
“So I looked at this and our current churn rate is like 1.8%.”
Michael Cooney Dec 19, 2020 ▶ 12:42
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