Oct 19, 2021 · 29m · top-founders
Will Veem's 300,000 SMB Customers Process Over $5b in 2021? 3 Products Driving Growth.
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this interview, Veem CEO Marwan Forzley explains how his B2B payments platform scaled to 300,000 SMB accounts through in-transaction viral growth, multi-product monetization across foreign exchange and embedded capital, and strategic capitalization.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 33.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Nathan as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 2.3 Nathan pushing back 4.9
speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 21:58 Marwan pushes back on simplistic revenue multiplication
Marwan counters Nathan's trap calculation by pointing out that treating every registered account as an active monthly payer mischaracterizes the nature of transactional platforms.
Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 21:45 Nathan calls out inconsistent platform mathNathan refuses to accept the vague revenue guidance, multiplying Marwan's stated 300,000 users by the $20 ARPU figure to demonstrate that the numbers provided do not add up.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 24:02 Marwan clarifies transactional vs subscription churnMarwan explains to Nathan that B2B transactional platforms do not experience binary SaaS churn, but instead fluctuate based on varied client invoicing cycles.
Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:13 Nathan demonstrates BNPL economics and capital recyclingNathan showcases strong domain knowledge by breaking down the APR dynamics, capital cycle velocity, and balance-sheet implications of embedded lending.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Nathan as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Nathan pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Introducing Marwan Forzley and the Origin of Veem | 5 | 3 | 2 | 4 | Nathan attempts to pin down Veem's monthly GMV volume, pushing beyond annual ranges. Marwan politely deflects while detailing their 65% organic transactional viral loop. | |
| SMB Customer Profile and Three Core Monetization Streams | 6 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Nathan probes for specific client names and playfully ribs Marwan when he cannot name one immediately. Nathan constructs a hypothetical $10k SMB case study to unpack Veem's monetization streams. | |
| Capital Programs, BNPL Mechanics, and Embedded Finance | 7 | 3 | 2 | 5 | Nathan analyzes the APR upside of buy-now-pay-later programs and questions why Veem does not raise cheap balance-sheet debt. Marwan explains their deliberate strategy of offloading balance-sheet risk to banking partners. | |
| Licensing Roadmap, Regulatory Journey, and Initial Growth Milestones | 5 | 4 | 2 | 4 | Marwan explains the extensive multi-year licensing journey across all U.S. states required before commercial launch. Nathan probes for historical revenue milestones, which Marwan partially deflects. | |
| Fundraising Strategy, Strategic Backers, and the Repay Deal | 6 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Nathan challenges the risks of taking strategic capital from Goldman Sachs and asks if proprietary SMB transaction data is shared. Marwan maintains that their partnerships are multifaceted and standard. | |
| Revenue Realities, Team Structure, and Transactional Churn Dynamics | 7 | 4 | 4 | 7 | Nathan calculates that 300k accounts at $20/month would imply $6M/month and calls out the arithmetic mismatch. Marwan pushes back by explaining that transactional active/inactive accounts behave differently than SaaS subscriptions. | |
| FinTech Market Landscape and Unicorn Valuation Multiples | 6 | 3 | 2 | 4 | The conversation shifts to broader fintech market multiples and unicorn qualification criteria. Marwan and Nathan discuss typical 20x to 30x revenue valuations for high-growth embedded finance businesses. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Veem has 300,000 accounts across 110 countries and 70 currencies
“We have about 300,000 accounts on the platform. We're in a 110 countries. We have 70 plus currencies that we support.”
Veem's account base has doubled every year since its inception
“We doubled the number of accounts pretty much every year. You know, we've been in existence and like every year, the number of accounts on the platform at least doubles.”
Forzley: 65% of Veem's monthly new signups come from customer transactions
“Every month that that passes by 65% of new accounts come in from customers are on the platform.”
Veem charges no subscription or ACH fees, monetizing through advanced features
“What's interesting is there's no subscription fee, there's no setup fee, there's no transaction fees on HTAs, checks, or debit cards. They're all for free. So we make money on what we call advanced features, which is credit cards, foreign exchange, and capital…”
Forzley expects Veem revenue to split evenly across FX, cards, capital
“Yeah, they'll, they'll divvy up like maybe a third.”
Veem charges 1% for instant debit deposits and 2.9% for cards
“We charge one percent on payments to a debit card. That's real time payments. Instantly, the money is deposited in your bank account. That's linked to your debit card. On paying with a card, we charge 2.9%.”
Veem allows SMBs to defer vendor payments up to six months
“You can push up to six months. Oh, wow. You pay anywhere from about a percent to two percent a month on that schedule.”
Forzley: Lending capital scales best when embedded into existing payments workflows
“Because if you look at where capital has scaled in the past, it's situations where it is embedded into something else. Payments is a natural.”
Veem generates approximately $20 in monthly average revenue per SMB customer
“It's SMBs. You're making, yeah, like, 20 bucks a month is a good you know good way to characterize it.”
Veem is licensed in every U.S. state, a multi-year regulatory process
“We are a regulated company, meaning we're licensed in every single state in the U.S., and we also have licenses in other parts of the world. So it took us like two, three years just Like legal compliance licensing.”
Forzley: SMB payments rely on inbound acquisition, unlike outbound enterprise sales
“The traditional model you were mentioning is more outbound or oriented. That's better for enterprise customers for this market. The type of customers come in are more inbound oriented.”
Forzley: Transactional businesses experience active/inactive cycles rather than subscription churn
“It's a different concept because this is transactional business models. It's not like a subscription. So I don't actually have churn and that I canceled my service this month. What we have is active and inactive customers and the active inactive ratios are a f…”
Forzley: High-growth fintechs trade at 20x to 30x revenue multiples
“So to get to that billion range, you gotta do like, call it like, you know, it depends on the growth rates, but like somewhere at 20 times, 30 times multiples these days. I mean, some companies are like 50 times multiples on revenue”