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Feb 27, 2022 · 23m · top-founders

He Converted SaaS to Blockchain, Now $230m Market Cap to Kill Fiverr

Adam Jackson · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Nathan Latka interviews BrainTrust co-founder Adam Jackson about disrupting legacy freelancing platforms like Fiverr by building a decentralized Web3 labor marketplace governed by the BTRST token. Jackson discusses tokenomics, SAFT venture financing, community referral engines, and smart contract fee converters.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 4.8 Guest disagreement 2.9 Nathan pushing back 3.4
05100:0010:0020:000:51–4:11 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Adam Jackson and BrainTrust's Labor Marketplace Latka sets up the premise comparing BrainTrust to Indeed, while Jackson clarifies that BrainTrust is a transactional labor marketplace rather than a simple job board.4:13–6:15 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Analyzing Token Price Volatility and Governance Value Latka challenges Jackson on token price volatility and pushes back on the claim that cash price does not matter to users and investors.6:20–8:21 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Treasury Allocation, Referral Engine, and DAO Grants Latka asks about supply distribution and governance, prompting Jackson to break down the automated referral engine and DAO community grants.8:23–11:19 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Decentralized Core Teams and SAFT Fundraising Structure Jackson explains the decentralized node structure and details how past venture rounds converted into tokens using SAFT agreements with conversion caps.11:22–14:30 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founderpath Valuation Tool Sponsor Segment Following a sponsor read, Latka works out the math on investor token ownership, and Jackson confirms that early investors hold roughly 22% of total supply.14:31–16:54 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Fixed Supply Cap and Founder Token Distribution Jackson contrasts traditional SaaS cap tables with fixed-supply token economies, highlighting that the 250 million token cap eliminates equity dilution.16:56–20:41 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Examining Community Earnings and Marketplace Labor Rates Tensions spike when Latka quotes YouTube commenters calling the project a scam, leading to a sharp disagreement over historical price charts and retail investor sentiment.20:43–22:38 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Fee Converter Mechanism and Marketplace Token Utility Jackson outlines the fee converter smart contract that buys tokens from open markets with fiat client fees, and confirms Latka's calculation of founder paper wealth.0:51–4:11 · Guest teaching 4/10 Introducing Adam Jackson and BrainTrust's Labor Marketplace Latka sets up the premise comparing BrainTrust to Indeed, while Jackson clarifies that BrainTrust is a transactional labor marketplace rather than a simple job board.4:13–6:15 · Guest teaching 4/10 Analyzing Token Price Volatility and Governance Value Latka challenges Jackson on token price volatility and pushes back on the claim that cash price does not matter to users and investors.6:20–8:21 · Guest teaching 5/10 Treasury Allocation, Referral Engine, and DAO Grants Latka asks about supply distribution and governance, prompting Jackson to break down the automated referral engine and DAO community grants.8:23–11:19 · Guest teaching 6/10 Decentralized Core Teams and SAFT Fundraising Structure Jackson explains the decentralized node structure and details how past venture rounds converted into tokens using SAFT agreements with conversion caps.11:22–14:30 · Guest teaching 4/10 Founderpath Valuation Tool Sponsor Segment Following a sponsor read, Latka works out the math on investor token ownership, and Jackson confirms that early investors hold roughly 22% of total supply.14:31–16:54 · Guest teaching 6/10 Fixed Supply Cap and Founder Token Distribution Jackson contrasts traditional SaaS cap tables with fixed-supply token economies, highlighting that the 250 million token cap eliminates equity dilution.16:56–20:41 · Guest teaching 4/10 Examining Community Earnings and Marketplace Labor Rates Tensions spike when Latka quotes YouTube commenters calling the project a scam, leading to a sharp disagreement over historical price charts and retail investor sentiment.20:43–22:38 · Guest teaching 5/10 The Fee Converter Mechanism and Marketplace Token Utility Jackson outlines the fee converter smart contract that buys tokens from open markets with fiat client fees, and confirms Latka's calculation of founder paper wealth.0:51–4:11 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Introducing Adam Jackson and BrainTrust's Labor Marketplace Latka sets up the premise comparing BrainTrust to Indeed, while Jackson clarifies that BrainTrust is a transactional labor marketplace rather than a simple job board.4:13–6:15 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Analyzing Token Price Volatility and Governance Value Latka challenges Jackson on token price volatility and pushes back on the claim that cash price does not matter to users and investors.6:20–8:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Treasury Allocation, Referral Engine, and DAO Grants Latka asks about supply distribution and governance, prompting Jackson to break down the automated referral engine and DAO community grants.8:23–11:19 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Decentralized Core Teams and SAFT Fundraising Structure Jackson explains the decentralized node structure and details how past venture rounds converted into tokens using SAFT agreements with conversion caps.11:22–14:30 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Founderpath Valuation Tool Sponsor Segment Following a sponsor read, Latka works out the math on investor token ownership, and Jackson confirms that early investors hold roughly 22% of total supply.14:31–16:54 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Fixed Supply Cap and Founder Token Distribution Jackson contrasts traditional SaaS cap tables with fixed-supply token economies, highlighting that the 250 million token cap eliminates equity dilution.16:56–20:41 · Guest disagreement 8/10 Examining Community Earnings and Marketplace Labor Rates Tensions spike when Latka quotes YouTube commenters calling the project a scam, leading to a sharp disagreement over historical price charts and retail investor sentiment.20:43–22:38 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Fee Converter Mechanism and Marketplace Token Utility Jackson outlines the fee converter smart contract that buys tokens from open markets with fiat client fees, and confirms Latka's calculation of founder paper wealth.0:51–4:11 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Adam Jackson and BrainTrust's Labor Marketplace Latka sets up the premise comparing BrainTrust to Indeed, while Jackson clarifies that BrainTrust is a transactional labor marketplace rather than a simple job board.4:13–6:15 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Analyzing Token Price Volatility and Governance Value Latka challenges Jackson on token price volatility and pushes back on the claim that cash price does not matter to users and investors.6:20–8:21 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Treasury Allocation, Referral Engine, and DAO Grants Latka asks about supply distribution and governance, prompting Jackson to break down the automated referral engine and DAO community grants.8:23–11:19 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Decentralized Core Teams and SAFT Fundraising Structure Jackson explains the decentralized node structure and details how past venture rounds converted into tokens using SAFT agreements with conversion caps.11:22–14:30 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Founderpath Valuation Tool Sponsor Segment Following a sponsor read, Latka works out the math on investor token ownership, and Jackson confirms that early investors hold roughly 22% of total supply.14:31–16:54 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Fixed Supply Cap and Founder Token Distribution Jackson contrasts traditional SaaS cap tables with fixed-supply token economies, highlighting that the 250 million token cap eliminates equity dilution.16:56–20:41 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Examining Community Earnings and Marketplace Labor Rates Tensions spike when Latka quotes YouTube commenters calling the project a scam, leading to a sharp disagreement over historical price charts and retail investor sentiment.20:43–22:38 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Fee Converter Mechanism and Marketplace Token Utility Jackson outlines the fee converter smart contract that buys tokens from open markets with fiat client fees, and confirms Latka's calculation of founder paper wealth.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 48.5% · guest 51.5%0:00 · Nathan 48.5% · guest 51.5%3:00 · Nathan 33.8% · guest 66.2%3:00 · Nathan 33.8% · guest 66.2%6:00 · Nathan 13.1% · guest 86.9%6:00 · Nathan 13.1% · guest 86.9%9:00 · Nathan 53.6% · guest 46.4%9:00 · Nathan 53.6% · guest 46.4%12:00 · Nathan 57.9% · guest 42.1%12:00 · Nathan 57.9% · guest 42.1%15:00 · Nathan 48.5% · guest 51.5%15:00 · Nathan 48.5% · guest 51.5%18:00 · Nathan 67.3% · guest 32.7%18:00 · Nathan 67.3% · guest 32.7%21:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%21:00 · Nathan 35.2% · guest 64.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:40 Jackson Dismisses Scam Comments and Questions

Jackson forcefully pushes back on Latka's chart reading and tells him to invite random YouTube commenters on the show if he wants to know why they called it a scam.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 18:56 Latka Presses on Negative Community Perception

Latka rejects the simple explanation of volatility by pointing out the specific stable timeframe when scam comments appeared, demanding a deeper explanation.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:04 Token Economics vs SaaS Cap Tables

Jackson systematically corrects Latka's analogy to typical founder-heavy equity cap tables by detailing the 250 million hard cap and community distribution model.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:20 Latka Reconstructs SAFT Pricing Math

Latka demonstrates sharp domain expertise by independently calculating conversion prices, circulating vs treasury balances, and net VC ownership percentages.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Adam Jackson and BrainTrust's Labor Marketplace 4422 Latka sets up the premise comparing BrainTrust to Indeed, while Jackson clarifies that BrainTrust is a transactional labor marketplace rather than a simple job board.
Analyzing Token Price Volatility and Governance Value 5445 Latka challenges Jackson on token price volatility and pushes back on the claim that cash price does not matter to users and investors.
Treasury Allocation, Referral Engine, and DAO Grants 4512 Latka asks about supply distribution and governance, prompting Jackson to break down the automated referral engine and DAO community grants.
Decentralized Core Teams and SAFT Fundraising Structure 4623 Jackson explains the decentralized node structure and details how past venture rounds converted into tokens using SAFT agreements with conversion caps.
Founderpath Valuation Tool Sponsor Segment 4422 Following a sponsor read, Latka works out the math on investor token ownership, and Jackson confirms that early investors hold roughly 22% of total supply.
Fixed Supply Cap and Founder Token Distribution 4623 Jackson contrasts traditional SaaS cap tables with fixed-supply token economies, highlighting that the 250 million token cap eliminates equity dilution.
Examining Community Earnings and Marketplace Labor Rates 6487 Tensions spike when Latka quotes YouTube commenters calling the project a scam, leading to a sharp disagreement over historical price charts and retail investor sentiment.
The Fee Converter Mechanism and Marketplace Token Utility 5523 Jackson outlines the fee converter smart contract that buys tokens from open markets with fiat client fees, and confirms Latka's calculation of founder paper wealth.

Statements from this episode (14)

Insight
Jackson: BTRST cash price does not affect Braintrust network operations
“The cash value of the brain trust token is actually not relevant to the network, right? It's one token, one vote, the more tokens you have, the more influence you have over the network. So whether that token's worth 10 cents or a dollar is not actually that re…”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 4:41
Assertion Partly supported
Jackson: Over 40,000 people have earned BTRST tokens building Braintrust
“We've had, you know, 40,000 plus folks earn tokens over the last couple of years in exchange for helping build the network. Invite talent, vet the talent, invite clients.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 5:47
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Jackson: Vast majority of Braintrust token earners have retained their tokens
“A lot of those, the vast majority of those folks have kept their tokens because they represent control, influence, voting power over the network.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 5:58
Assertion Partly supported
Jackson: 65% of BTRST supply sits in treasury for contributors
“The other 65% is basically sitting in treasury waiting to be given out to further contributors.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 6:26
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Jackson: Braintrust operates via seven core teams of 30-40 total employees
“There's no brain trust Inc behind it. There's now seven core teams. So little companies that kind of like spend a lot of energy and resources building brain trust. Those seven core teams probably have like 30, 35, 40 or so full-time employees.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 8:32
Disclosure
Jackson: Early Braintrust investors bought SAFTs converting below $1 per token
“These investors bought staffs, simple agreement, future tokens. Safes have conversion caps. Safes have conversion caps, right? And so there was a conversion cap in the staff. It's different levels for different staffs, but They were all, you know, somewhere be…”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 10:58
Disclosure
Jackson: Early Backers Own Around 22% of Braintrust's Token Supply
“Around 22 or so percent.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 13:14
Insight
Jackson: Token Projects Raise Less Capital Than Traditional Equity Startups
“I think, so what's interesting is token projects on, on par kind of raise less money Then equity projects because the community is doing more of the work. Right. And getting more of the ownership.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 13:22
Disclosure
Jackson: Braintrust founders received around 10% of token supply combined
“The founders got, it was, Probably around 10% combined.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 15:40
Assertion Supported
Jackson: Braintrust has a fixed, dilution-proof 250M token supply cap
“It's locked into our smart contract that we have a fixed supply, two hundred fifty million tokens, which is interesting, right? Because you can never be diluted, right? It's dilution proof.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 16:29
Insight
Jackson: Retail Traders Call Projects Scams When Losing Money
“And I think when, you know, retail traders lose money in volatile situations, they just call everything a scam.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 18:48
Assertion Supported
Jackson: Braintrust fee converter buys BTRST on open market with enterprise fees
“Last week, there was a community protocol upgrade where the community basically said, hey, that 10% fee collected from clients in cash needs to be paid in brain trust token. The community developed a new smart contract called the fee converter, which takes US …”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 21:15
Disclosure
Jackson denies personal involvement in Braintrust's fee converter protocol upgrade
“Now I personally had nothing to do with that upgrade. You know, it was a community led thing”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 21:53
Opinion
Jackson says he loves FTX CEO Sam Bankman-Fried
“You know, I love Sam Bankman Freed, CEO of FTX.”
Adam Jackson Feb 27, 2022 ▶ 22:57
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