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Apr 2, 2022 · 24m · top-founders

Full Stack Permissions as a Service Launches, $6m in Fresh Capital to Buy Time

Or Weiss · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of Conversations with Nathan Latka, Permit.io founder and CEO Or Weiss discusses how his military intelligence engineering background informed the creation of full-stack permissions as a service, detailing how the startup converted open-source traction with major enterprises into commercial SaaS adoption backed by a $6 million seed round.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 33.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 4.3 Guest disagreement 1.9 Nathan pushing back 3.6
05100:0010:0020:000:50–4:17 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Introducing Or Weiss and His Engineering Background Nathan introduces Or Weiss and prods him about his classified military background in Israeli intelligence. Weiss explains the high-stakes environment where software deployment failures had life-or-death consequences.4:18–6:58 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Mandate of Unit 8200 and Open-Source Intelligence Nathan makes assumptions regarding Unit 8200 handling cyber defense and prime minister communications encryption. Weiss corrects him, clarifying that Unit 8200 focuses strictly on intelligence collection unlike the NSA.6:59–9:13 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Origin and Value Proposition of Permit.io Weiss describes why developers shouldn't build authorization from scratch and details Permit.io's core product-led value proposition. Latka listens attentively and asks for target audience and pricing specifics.9:13–12:13 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Product-Led Growth and Usage-Based Pricing Mechanics Latka probes pricing by assuming a per-seat developer model, which Weiss corrects to monthly active end-user volume. Latka then challenges Weiss on citing a 300-person Slack community as a meaningful success metric.12:13–14:22 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Enterprise Open-Source Adoption and Production Scale Feedback Latka argues that active code contributors matter more than passive users, but Weiss pushes back that enterprise usage feedback from companies like Tesla drives product roadmap. Latka clarifies how many Tesla-scale deployments exist.14:25–18:40 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Commercial SaaS Launch and Enterprise Procurement Pipeline Latka presses Weiss to establish whether Permit.io is actually pre-revenue or converting design partners into paying SaaS accounts. He also drills into SAFE terms and calculates implied valuation caps on the $6M round.18:40–21:20 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Strategic Runway, Team Expansion, and PLG Patience Latka revisits and corrects his valuation cap math from the previous segment while Weiss explains the necessity of a two-year runway to give the PLG flywheel time to build, citing Snyk as a model.21:20–23:37 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview concludes with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Dawkins' Selfish Gene, GitHub Copilot, and pacing oneself in early startup years.0:50–4:17 · Guest teaching 5/10 Introducing Or Weiss and His Engineering Background Nathan introduces Or Weiss and prods him about his classified military background in Israeli intelligence. Weiss explains the high-stakes environment where software deployment failures had life-or-death consequences.4:18–6:58 · Guest teaching 7/10 The Mandate of Unit 8200 and Open-Source Intelligence Nathan makes assumptions regarding Unit 8200 handling cyber defense and prime minister communications encryption. Weiss corrects him, clarifying that Unit 8200 focuses strictly on intelligence collection unlike the NSA.6:59–9:13 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Origin and Value Proposition of Permit.io Weiss describes why developers shouldn't build authorization from scratch and details Permit.io's core product-led value proposition. Latka listens attentively and asks for target audience and pricing specifics.9:13–12:13 · Guest teaching 5/10 Product-Led Growth and Usage-Based Pricing Mechanics Latka probes pricing by assuming a per-seat developer model, which Weiss corrects to monthly active end-user volume. Latka then challenges Weiss on citing a 300-person Slack community as a meaningful success metric.12:13–14:22 · Guest teaching 5/10 Enterprise Open-Source Adoption and Production Scale Feedback Latka argues that active code contributors matter more than passive users, but Weiss pushes back that enterprise usage feedback from companies like Tesla drives product roadmap. Latka clarifies how many Tesla-scale deployments exist.14:25–18:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Commercial SaaS Launch and Enterprise Procurement Pipeline Latka presses Weiss to establish whether Permit.io is actually pre-revenue or converting design partners into paying SaaS accounts. He also drills into SAFE terms and calculates implied valuation caps on the $6M round.18:40–21:20 · Guest teaching 4/10 Strategic Runway, Team Expansion, and PLG Patience Latka revisits and corrects his valuation cap math from the previous segment while Weiss explains the necessity of a two-year runway to give the PLG flywheel time to build, citing Snyk as a model.21:20–23:37 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview concludes with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Dawkins' Selfish Gene, GitHub Copilot, and pacing oneself in early startup years.0:50–4:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Or Weiss and His Engineering Background Nathan introduces Or Weiss and prods him about his classified military background in Israeli intelligence. Weiss explains the high-stakes environment where software deployment failures had life-or-death consequences.4:18–6:58 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Mandate of Unit 8200 and Open-Source Intelligence Nathan makes assumptions regarding Unit 8200 handling cyber defense and prime minister communications encryption. Weiss corrects him, clarifying that Unit 8200 focuses strictly on intelligence collection unlike the NSA.6:59–9:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Origin and Value Proposition of Permit.io Weiss describes why developers shouldn't build authorization from scratch and details Permit.io's core product-led value proposition. Latka listens attentively and asks for target audience and pricing specifics.9:13–12:13 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Product-Led Growth and Usage-Based Pricing Mechanics Latka probes pricing by assuming a per-seat developer model, which Weiss corrects to monthly active end-user volume. Latka then challenges Weiss on citing a 300-person Slack community as a meaningful success metric.12:13–14:22 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Enterprise Open-Source Adoption and Production Scale Feedback Latka argues that active code contributors matter more than passive users, but Weiss pushes back that enterprise usage feedback from companies like Tesla drives product roadmap. Latka clarifies how many Tesla-scale deployments exist.14:25–18:40 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Commercial SaaS Launch and Enterprise Procurement Pipeline Latka presses Weiss to establish whether Permit.io is actually pre-revenue or converting design partners into paying SaaS accounts. He also drills into SAFE terms and calculates implied valuation caps on the $6M round.18:40–21:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Strategic Runway, Team Expansion, and PLG Patience Latka revisits and corrects his valuation cap math from the previous segment while Weiss explains the necessity of a two-year runway to give the PLG flywheel time to build, citing Snyk as a model.21:20–23:37 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview concludes with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Dawkins' Selfish Gene, GitHub Copilot, and pacing oneself in early startup years.0:50–4:17 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Or Weiss and His Engineering Background Nathan introduces Or Weiss and prods him about his classified military background in Israeli intelligence. Weiss explains the high-stakes environment where software deployment failures had life-or-death consequences.4:18–6:58 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Mandate of Unit 8200 and Open-Source Intelligence Nathan makes assumptions regarding Unit 8200 handling cyber defense and prime minister communications encryption. Weiss corrects him, clarifying that Unit 8200 focuses strictly on intelligence collection unlike the NSA.6:59–9:13 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Origin and Value Proposition of Permit.io Weiss describes why developers shouldn't build authorization from scratch and details Permit.io's core product-led value proposition. Latka listens attentively and asks for target audience and pricing specifics.9:13–12:13 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Product-Led Growth and Usage-Based Pricing Mechanics Latka probes pricing by assuming a per-seat developer model, which Weiss corrects to monthly active end-user volume. Latka then challenges Weiss on citing a 300-person Slack community as a meaningful success metric.12:13–14:22 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Enterprise Open-Source Adoption and Production Scale Feedback Latka argues that active code contributors matter more than passive users, but Weiss pushes back that enterprise usage feedback from companies like Tesla drives product roadmap. Latka clarifies how many Tesla-scale deployments exist.14:25–18:40 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Commercial SaaS Launch and Enterprise Procurement Pipeline Latka presses Weiss to establish whether Permit.io is actually pre-revenue or converting design partners into paying SaaS accounts. He also drills into SAFE terms and calculates implied valuation caps on the $6M round.18:40–21:20 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Strategic Runway, Team Expansion, and PLG Patience Latka revisits and corrects his valuation cap math from the previous segment while Weiss explains the necessity of a two-year runway to give the PLG flywheel time to build, citing Snyk as a model.21:20–23:37 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview concludes with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Dawkins' Selfish Gene, GitHub Copilot, and pacing oneself in early startup years.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 51.8% · guest 48.2%0:00 · Nathan 51.8% · guest 48.2%3:00 · Nathan 20.4% · guest 79.6%3:00 · Nathan 20.4% · guest 79.6%6:00 · Nathan 12.1% · guest 87.9%6:00 · Nathan 12.1% · guest 87.9%9:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%9:00 · Nathan 17.9% · guest 82.1%12:00 · Nathan 52.3% · guest 47.7%12:00 · Nathan 52.3% · guest 47.7%15:00 · Nathan 44.4% · guest 55.6%15:00 · Nathan 44.4% · guest 55.6%18:00 · Nathan 32.6% · guest 67.4%18:00 · Nathan 32.6% · guest 67.4%21:00 · Nathan 31.1% · guest 68.9%21:00 · Nathan 31.1% · guest 68.9%24:00 · Nathan 92.2% · guest 7.8%24:00 · Nathan 92.2% · guest 7.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:46 Weiss defends community engagement over vanity member counts

When Latka dismisses a 300-person Slack community as inactive, Weiss directly counters by explaining that daily active inquiry volume, not raw membership totals, represents real open-source engagement.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:55 Latka corners Weiss on true revenue status

Latka repeatedly refuses Weiss's vague description of a dozen customers heading to production, forcing Weiss to acknowledge that these prospects are still in procurement and effectively pre-SaaS revenue.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:34 Weiss explains Unit 8200's specific intelligence role

Weiss corrects Latka's misunderstanding about Unit 8200 handling national infrastructure encryption, explaining the structural difference between the NSA and Israeli intelligence corps.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 19:53 Latka corrects his cap math and validates strategic runway

Latka proactively demonstrates venture financial expertise by catching his previous valuation calculation error and translating Weiss's dilution targets into a precise $40M cap on a $6M note.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Or Weiss and His Engineering Background 3512 Nathan introduces Or Weiss and prods him about his classified military background in Israeli intelligence. Weiss explains the high-stakes environment where software deployment failures had life-or-death consequences.
The Mandate of Unit 8200 and Open-Source Intelligence 4723 Nathan makes assumptions regarding Unit 8200 handling cyber defense and prime minister communications encryption. Weiss corrects him, clarifying that Unit 8200 focuses strictly on intelligence collection unlike the NSA.
The Origin and Value Proposition of Permit.io 5412 Weiss describes why developers shouldn't build authorization from scratch and details Permit.io's core product-led value proposition. Latka listens attentively and asks for target audience and pricing specifics.
Product-Led Growth and Usage-Based Pricing Mechanics 6536 Latka probes pricing by assuming a per-seat developer model, which Weiss corrects to monthly active end-user volume. Latka then challenges Weiss on citing a 300-person Slack community as a meaningful success metric.
Enterprise Open-Source Adoption and Production Scale Feedback 6535 Latka argues that active code contributors matter more than passive users, but Weiss pushes back that enterprise usage feedback from companies like Tesla drives product roadmap. Latka clarifies how many Tesla-scale deployments exist.
Commercial SaaS Launch and Enterprise Procurement Pipeline 7326 Latka presses Weiss to establish whether Permit.io is actually pre-revenue or converting design partners into paying SaaS accounts. He also drills into SAFE terms and calculates implied valuation caps on the $6M round.
Strategic Runway, Team Expansion, and PLG Patience 7424 Latka revisits and corrects his valuation cap math from the previous segment while Weiss explains the necessity of a two-year runway to give the PLG flywheel time to build, citing Snyk as a model.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3111 The interview concludes with the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering Dawkins' Selfish Gene, GitHub Copilot, and pacing oneself in early startup years.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Weiss: Unit 8200 is structured to function independently if Israel collapses
“And it's fully independent. It's structured in a way. So if the entire IDF, the entire state of Israel crumbles to dust, it should still be able to function on its own.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 5:05
Assertion Supported
Weiss: Unit 8200 focuses solely on intelligence collection, unlike the NSA
“That's a separate body. So there was, so that's actually a difference from the NSA. The NSA is responsible both for securing the infrastructures and intelligence monitoring. The ISNU or AD-D-E-Hundred is only responsible for intelligence.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 5:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Weiss rebuilt access control five times in three years at Rookout
“I got to that as in my previous company, a lookout, I ended up rebuilding access control for our product five times in a three-year-old company.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 7:15
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Weiss: Open-source OPAL is used in production at Tesla, Zapier, and Accenture
“And while Opal is a very young project, it's not even a year old. It's already being used in production in amazing companies like Tesla, Zapier, Accenture, and others.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 11:25
Insight
Weiss: Open-source feature requests provide more market insight than code contributions
“Because that the using and asking for features that really teaches me on what the market needs and how the problem space looks in the details of it.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 12:34
Disclosure
Weiss: Permit.io has nearly a dozen customers heading to production
“So we launched our SaaS offering as kind of open to everyone as part of our announcement of coming out of stealth a month ago. And we now have almost, we're getting close to a dozen customers heading to production.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 14:41
Disclosure
Permit.io raised a $6 million seed round in July 2021
“We've raised a six million seed round in July.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 16:26
Disclosure
Weiss took a lower valuation to secure preferred seed investors
“I even, I think in some parts of it, I decided to opt for a lower valuation to work with people that I wanted.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 17:45
Disclosure
Weiss: Permit.io has over two years of runway from $6M seed
“A bit over two years.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 19:50
Assertion Supported
Weiss: Snyk took over two years to reach $1M ARR
“Sneak took about almost a bit over two years to get to a million ARR. Which is considered slow. If you look, if you think classic enterprise slaves, but two years later, there were already a multi-billion dollar company.”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 20:21
Opinion
Weiss: GitHub Copilot generates documentation better than developers originally conceive
“Currently and recently it's GitHub Copilot. I'm astounded not only by how good it is by delivering code, but also documentation. Like I start to write the documentation as part of an MD file and it gives recommendations for the content of the documentation tha…”
Or Weiss Apr 2, 2022 ▶ 22:16
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