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May 30, 2022 · 24m · top-founders

They sold $400m in NFT's last month, made $8m, broke $200m valuation during Series A

Jack Liu · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, host Nathan Latka speaks with Magic Eden co-founder Jack Liu to explore how the Solana-based NFT marketplace scaled to $400 million in monthly trading volume, $8 million in monthly revenue, and a $100 million ARR run-rate within months of launching. Liu details the company's financial mechanics, founding team synergy, community dynamics behind blue-chip collections, and future expansion into Web3 gaming infrastructure.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 39.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 3.8
05100:0010:0020:000:51–4:52 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Rapid Rise of Magic Eden and Billion-Dollar Milestone Nathan demands immediate data to back up the claim of being the fastest-growing crypto marketplace. Jack provides precise revenue and volume statistics, explaining their rapid launch and team background.4:52–7:07 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Early Traction, Key Hires, and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan probes for the earliest transaction details and business mechanics. Jack breaks down the business model into launchpad and secondary trading splits.7:07–12:02 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Solana Dominance, Monetization Rates, and Series A Valuation Nathan aggressively crunches the numbers on transaction cut, revenue run rate, and Series A valuation, questioning why they raised at what seems like an undervalued multiple. Jack explains the lag between term sheet signing and closing.12:05–15:12 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Scaling Global Teams with Remote.com After an ad break, Nathan questions future growth given that Magic Eden already commands 95% of Solana volume. Jack reframes growth as creator-driven and highlights expansion into gaming.15:14–18:55 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Anatomy of a Blue-Chip NFT: The OK Bears Case Study Nathan asks what creates NFT value using OK Bears as an example, pressing for specific mechanics of utility. Jack explains organic community building and digital signaling.18:56–22:40 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Trading Demographics, M&A Philosophy, and Team Culture Nathan floats the idea of selling out or merging with entertainment agencies like CAA. Jack flatly rejects the idea of merging, emphasizing their crypto-native ethos.0:51–4:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 Rapid Rise of Magic Eden and Billion-Dollar Milestone Nathan demands immediate data to back up the claim of being the fastest-growing crypto marketplace. Jack provides precise revenue and volume statistics, explaining their rapid launch and team background.4:52–7:07 · Guest teaching 2/10 Early Traction, Key Hires, and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan probes for the earliest transaction details and business mechanics. Jack breaks down the business model into launchpad and secondary trading splits.7:07–12:02 · Guest teaching 3/10 Solana Dominance, Monetization Rates, and Series A Valuation Nathan aggressively crunches the numbers on transaction cut, revenue run rate, and Series A valuation, questioning why they raised at what seems like an undervalued multiple. Jack explains the lag between term sheet signing and closing.12:05–15:12 · Guest teaching 4/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Scaling Global Teams with Remote.com After an ad break, Nathan questions future growth given that Magic Eden already commands 95% of Solana volume. Jack reframes growth as creator-driven and highlights expansion into gaming.15:14–18:55 · Guest teaching 4/10 Anatomy of a Blue-Chip NFT: The OK Bears Case Study Nathan asks what creates NFT value using OK Bears as an example, pressing for specific mechanics of utility. Jack explains organic community building and digital signaling.18:56–22:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Trading Demographics, M&A Philosophy, and Team Culture Nathan floats the idea of selling out or merging with entertainment agencies like CAA. Jack flatly rejects the idea of merging, emphasizing their crypto-native ethos.0:51–4:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Rapid Rise of Magic Eden and Billion-Dollar Milestone Nathan demands immediate data to back up the claim of being the fastest-growing crypto marketplace. Jack provides precise revenue and volume statistics, explaining their rapid launch and team background.4:52–7:07 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Early Traction, Key Hires, and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan probes for the earliest transaction details and business mechanics. Jack breaks down the business model into launchpad and secondary trading splits.7:07–12:02 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Solana Dominance, Monetization Rates, and Series A Valuation Nathan aggressively crunches the numbers on transaction cut, revenue run rate, and Series A valuation, questioning why they raised at what seems like an undervalued multiple. Jack explains the lag between term sheet signing and closing.12:05–15:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Scaling Global Teams with Remote.com After an ad break, Nathan questions future growth given that Magic Eden already commands 95% of Solana volume. Jack reframes growth as creator-driven and highlights expansion into gaming.15:14–18:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Anatomy of a Blue-Chip NFT: The OK Bears Case Study Nathan asks what creates NFT value using OK Bears as an example, pressing for specific mechanics of utility. Jack explains organic community building and digital signaling.18:56–22:40 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Trading Demographics, M&A Philosophy, and Team Culture Nathan floats the idea of selling out or merging with entertainment agencies like CAA. Jack flatly rejects the idea of merging, emphasizing their crypto-native ethos.0:51–4:52 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Rapid Rise of Magic Eden and Billion-Dollar Milestone Nathan demands immediate data to back up the claim of being the fastest-growing crypto marketplace. Jack provides precise revenue and volume statistics, explaining their rapid launch and team background.4:52–7:07 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Early Traction, Key Hires, and Dual Revenue Streams Nathan probes for the earliest transaction details and business mechanics. Jack breaks down the business model into launchpad and secondary trading splits.7:07–12:02 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Solana Dominance, Monetization Rates, and Series A Valuation Nathan aggressively crunches the numbers on transaction cut, revenue run rate, and Series A valuation, questioning why they raised at what seems like an undervalued multiple. Jack explains the lag between term sheet signing and closing.12:05–15:12 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Sponsor Spotlight: Scaling Global Teams with Remote.com After an ad break, Nathan questions future growth given that Magic Eden already commands 95% of Solana volume. Jack reframes growth as creator-driven and highlights expansion into gaming.15:14–18:55 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Anatomy of a Blue-Chip NFT: The OK Bears Case Study Nathan asks what creates NFT value using OK Bears as an example, pressing for specific mechanics of utility. Jack explains organic community building and digital signaling.18:56–22:40 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Trading Demographics, M&A Philosophy, and Team Culture Nathan floats the idea of selling out or merging with entertainment agencies like CAA. Jack flatly rejects the idea of merging, emphasizing their crypto-native ethos.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 60.5% · guest 39.5%0:00 · Nathan 60.5% · guest 39.5%3:00 · Nathan 17.1% · guest 82.9%3:00 · Nathan 17.1% · guest 82.9%6:00 · Nathan 28.8% · guest 71.2%6:00 · Nathan 28.8% · guest 71.2%9:00 · Nathan 46.6% · guest 53.4%9:00 · Nathan 46.6% · guest 53.4%12:00 · Nathan 56.9% · guest 43.1%12:00 · Nathan 56.9% · guest 43.1%15:00 · Nathan 24.3% · guest 75.7%15:00 · Nathan 24.3% · guest 75.7%18:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%18:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%21:00 · Nathan 31.8% · guest 68.2%21:00 · Nathan 31.8% · guest 68.2%24:00 · Nathan 93.2% · guest 6.8%24:00 · Nathan 93.2% · guest 6.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 20:34 Firm rejection of acquisition offers

Jack gives an immediate one-word refusal when asked if they would sell for a billion dollars and insists they will philosophically never merge.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:05 Pushing back on Series A valuation math

Nathan refuses to let go of the low revenue multiple, pointing out that an eight million dollar monthly run rate implies a steep discount on their Series A terms.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:46 Explaining the NFT growth engine

Jack corrects the premise of chain-limited market caps by explaining that creators and gaming utility drive user adoption rather than the underlying blockchain alone.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:51 Real-time revenue run-rate calculation

Nathan instantly calculates monthly net revenue from GMV and the two percent take rate, challenging the guest on financial multiples.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Rapid Rise of Magic Eden and Billion-Dollar Milestone 5314 Nathan demands immediate data to back up the claim of being the fastest-growing crypto marketplace. Jack provides precise revenue and volume statistics, explaining their rapid launch and team background.
Early Traction, Key Hires, and Dual Revenue Streams 4212 Nathan probes for the earliest transaction details and business mechanics. Jack breaks down the business model into launchpad and secondary trading splits.
Solana Dominance, Monetization Rates, and Series A Valuation 7326 Nathan aggressively crunches the numbers on transaction cut, revenue run rate, and Series A valuation, questioning why they raised at what seems like an undervalued multiple. Jack explains the lag between term sheet signing and closing.
Sponsor Spotlight: Scaling Global Teams with Remote.com 3413 After an ad break, Nathan questions future growth given that Magic Eden already commands 95% of Solana volume. Jack reframes growth as creator-driven and highlights expansion into gaming.
Anatomy of a Blue-Chip NFT: The OK Bears Case Study 5414 Nathan asks what creates NFT value using OK Bears as an example, pressing for specific mechanics of utility. Jack explains organic community building and digital signaling.
Trading Demographics, M&A Philosophy, and Team Culture 4334 Nathan floats the idea of selling out or merging with entertainment agencies like CAA. Jack flatly rejects the idea of merging, emphasizing their crypto-native ethos.

Statements from this episode (22)

Assertion Supported
Liu: Magic Eden became world's second-largest NFT marketplace in seven months
“We started magic Eden seven months ago in that time we've become the second largest NFT marketplace in the world.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 1:27
Prediction Didn’t hold up
Liu: Magic Eden on track for $400M–$500M NFT volume this month
“So this month we're about to trade around four, five, four to five hundred million dollars of NFTs. On a marketplace.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 1:35
Assertion Partly supported
Liu: Magic Eden Reached $1B Cumulative GMV in 4–5 Months
“And we're the fastest marketplace to reach cumulatively a billion dollars in GMB traded. So we did that in around four or five months.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 1:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Liu: Magic Eden Built and Launched Website in 14 Days
“We launched a site in 14 days actually.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 2:12
Insight
Liu: NFT marketplaces combine exchange economics with consumer marketplace software
“And if you step back and think about it, an NFT marketplace, the business model is really like a crypto exchange, right? But the features, the software that you build looks really like a consumer marketplace.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 4:11
Disclosure
Liu: Magic Eden split equity equally among its four founders
“No, it's a, it's an equity thing. Pretty vanilla, but yeah, like equal split, you know, I think.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 4:37
Assertion Supported
Liu: Magic Eden Hosts Almost 10,000 NFT Collections
“We've got like almost 10,000 collections.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 5:13
Disclosure
Liu: Magic Eden Generates 70% to 80% of Revenue From Secondaries
“Launchpad is a little more spiky. I would say it's around 20, 80, so, or 30, 70. So 20% launchpad, 80% secondaries, or sometimes it goes up to 30, 70.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 6:55
Assertion Supported
Liu: Magic Eden commands 90% to 95% of Solana NFT volume
“We've been consistently around 90 to 95% market share of the Solana blockchain of all NFTs traded on Solana for the past two, three months or so.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 7:46
Disclosure
Solana Foundation invested in Magic Eden's Series A round
“Solana Foundation, we've been in contact with from day one effectively. You know, very, ah, you know, very privileged for them to have been out as an investor in our Series A as well.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 8:28
Disclosure
Magic Eden charges a 2% marketplace take rate on GMV
“Right now we click two percent of the transaction volume.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 9:36
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Liu: Magic Eden generated $8M in revenue in April 2022
“Made eight million dollars. Yeah.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 10:00
Disclosure
Magic Eden raised a $2.5M seed round in October 2021
“October last year, two and a half mil seed round.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 11:50
Insight
Liu: NFT market growth comes from creators' use cases, not underlying blockchains
“Growth doesn't necessarily start with the chain, right? It's the creators who create use cases for NFTs, and those use cases pull in new users. Chain is just a technology, just like an operating system on which it lives.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 13:57
Disclosure
Liu: Magic Eden plans to invest deeply in Web3 game developers
“The category that we're super bullish on going forward and we want to invest deeply in this gaming, right? In-game assets, in-game purchases, that's been a tried and tested business model for a decade for the gaming industry and users that are very tech savvy …”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 14:25
Insight
Liu: Profile picture NFTs act as digital status symbols like Rolexes
“And in a way it's your internet version of, I don't know, like a Rolex or something or like a Nike bag. It's your personal branding on the internet.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 16:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Liu: OK Bears succeeded through six months of grassroots community building
“And what the okay best team did extraordinarily well was they did a lot of super organic grassroots community building to build interest in their project over six months.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 16:18
Opinion
Liu: Many NFT projects cut corners with paid influencer marketing
“There's a lot of NFT projects, which try to you know, cut a lot of corners, right? Basically they'll pay a bunch of influencers, get some juice up some marketing, but there is no real organic interest from the community in the collection.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 16:29
Assertion Supported
Liu: Magic Eden averages around 30,000 unique daily active traders
“In general, we see around 30,000 unique traders every day.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 19:30
Disclosure
Liu: Magic Eden will philosophically never merge with another company
“I think philosophically we'll never merge.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 20:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Liu: One-third of Magic Eden's business team are former NFT creators
“So on the business side, we're proud to say around a third of our team former NFT artists or former NFT collection creators”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 22:12
Opinion
Liu in May 2022: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried is an absolute monster
“Well, I used to work at FTX. I think the founder there, Sam Bakeman Freed is a, is an absolute monster.”
Jack Liu May 30, 2022 ▶ 22:57
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