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Dec 28, 2022 · 15m · top-founders

He closed $3.2m at $17m valuation with $20k in MRR last week for Estate Planning Tool

Jonathan Fishbeck · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

EstateSpace founder Jonathan Fishback joins Nathan Latka to discuss transitioning from a services agency to a dedicated vertical SaaS platform, securing a $3.2 million seed round at a $17 million valuation, and scaling family office property management software.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 36.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.8 Guest teaching 4.5 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 5.5
05100:0010:000:37–3:21 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 EstateSpace Traction and Founder Welcome Nathan probes how the company acquires and bills estate management customers compared to traditional human wealth managers. Jonathan clarifies their B2B2C model and how family offices adopt software to scale lifestyle fulfillment.3:21–6:47 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Pivoting from Agency Services to Pure SaaS Nathan digs into historical numbers from their prior conversation and presses on the steep topline revenue decline resulting from shutting down agency services. Jonathan explains the transparent internal communication and pivot to pure SaaS ARR.6:47–10:48 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Seed Round Structure and Valuation Discussion Nathan calculates the 68x multiple on ARR and challenges Jonathan on why he is raising at a $17M valuation when he reportedly rejected a $20M acquisition offer previously. Jonathan defends the valuation based on investor appetite, market context, and high client retention.10:48–13:22 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Unit Economics and Ecosystem Expansion Nathan cuts through general talk of platform releases to demand specific drivers behind their largest $7,000/month customer. Jonathan details their seat-based pricing model that encompasses vendors and broader family office ecosystems.0:37–3:21 · Guest teaching 5/10 EstateSpace Traction and Founder Welcome Nathan probes how the company acquires and bills estate management customers compared to traditional human wealth managers. Jonathan clarifies their B2B2C model and how family offices adopt software to scale lifestyle fulfillment.3:21–6:47 · Guest teaching 4/10 Pivoting from Agency Services to Pure SaaS Nathan digs into historical numbers from their prior conversation and presses on the steep topline revenue decline resulting from shutting down agency services. Jonathan explains the transparent internal communication and pivot to pure SaaS ARR.6:47–10:48 · Guest teaching 5/10 Seed Round Structure and Valuation Discussion Nathan calculates the 68x multiple on ARR and challenges Jonathan on why he is raising at a $17M valuation when he reportedly rejected a $20M acquisition offer previously. Jonathan defends the valuation based on investor appetite, market context, and high client retention.10:48–13:22 · Guest teaching 4/10 Customer Unit Economics and Ecosystem Expansion Nathan cuts through general talk of platform releases to demand specific drivers behind their largest $7,000/month customer. Jonathan details their seat-based pricing model that encompasses vendors and broader family office ecosystems.0:37–3:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 EstateSpace Traction and Founder Welcome Nathan probes how the company acquires and bills estate management customers compared to traditional human wealth managers. Jonathan clarifies their B2B2C model and how family offices adopt software to scale lifestyle fulfillment.3:21–6:47 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Pivoting from Agency Services to Pure SaaS Nathan digs into historical numbers from their prior conversation and presses on the steep topline revenue decline resulting from shutting down agency services. Jonathan explains the transparent internal communication and pivot to pure SaaS ARR.6:47–10:48 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Seed Round Structure and Valuation Discussion Nathan calculates the 68x multiple on ARR and challenges Jonathan on why he is raising at a $17M valuation when he reportedly rejected a $20M acquisition offer previously. Jonathan defends the valuation based on investor appetite, market context, and high client retention.10:48–13:22 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Unit Economics and Ecosystem Expansion Nathan cuts through general talk of platform releases to demand specific drivers behind their largest $7,000/month customer. Jonathan details their seat-based pricing model that encompasses vendors and broader family office ecosystems.0:37–3:21 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 EstateSpace Traction and Founder Welcome Nathan probes how the company acquires and bills estate management customers compared to traditional human wealth managers. Jonathan clarifies their B2B2C model and how family offices adopt software to scale lifestyle fulfillment.3:21–6:47 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Pivoting from Agency Services to Pure SaaS Nathan digs into historical numbers from their prior conversation and presses on the steep topline revenue decline resulting from shutting down agency services. Jonathan explains the transparent internal communication and pivot to pure SaaS ARR.6:47–10:48 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Seed Round Structure and Valuation Discussion Nathan calculates the 68x multiple on ARR and challenges Jonathan on why he is raising at a $17M valuation when he reportedly rejected a $20M acquisition offer previously. Jonathan defends the valuation based on investor appetite, market context, and high client retention.10:48–13:22 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Customer Unit Economics and Ecosystem Expansion Nathan cuts through general talk of platform releases to demand specific drivers behind their largest $7,000/month customer. Jonathan details their seat-based pricing model that encompasses vendors and broader family office ecosystems.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 53% · guest 47%0:00 · Nathan 53% · guest 47%3:00 · Nathan 33% · guest 67%3:00 · Nathan 33% · guest 67%6:00 · Nathan 30.2% · guest 69.8%6:00 · Nathan 30.2% · guest 69.8%9:00 · Nathan 25.4% · guest 74.6%9:00 · Nathan 25.4% · guest 74.6%12:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%12:00 · Nathan 37.6% · guest 62.4%15:00 · Nathan 90% · guest 10%15:00 · Nathan 90% · guest 10%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:12 Refusing past offer comparison

Jonathan dismisses dwelling on the past $20M acquisition rejection and asserts his company is worth far more while bluntly acknowledging the current valuation was simply what the market would bear.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:25 Nathan presses on raising below prior offer

Nathan directly challenges the founder's logic, asking why he would accept a $17M valuation today if he believed the company was worth far more than the $20M offer he turned down.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:34 Explaining vendor-inclusive seat pricing

Jonathan breaks down how estate management pricing expands by charging for external vendors and service staff inside the client's platform ecosystem rather than just internal staff.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:01 Nathan calculates 68x revenue multiple

Nathan immediately runs the mental math calculating a 68x multiple on a $250k run-rate company raising at $17M pre-money in a tight funding market.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
EstateSpace Traction and Founder Welcome 6514 Nathan probes how the company acquires and bills estate management customers compared to traditional human wealth managers. Jonathan clarifies their B2B2C model and how family offices adopt software to scale lifestyle fulfillment.
Pivoting from Agency Services to Pure SaaS 7426 Nathan digs into historical numbers from their prior conversation and presses on the steep topline revenue decline resulting from shutting down agency services. Jonathan explains the transparent internal communication and pivot to pure SaaS ARR.
Seed Round Structure and Valuation Discussion 8537 Nathan calculates the 68x multiple on ARR and challenges Jonathan on why he is raising at a $17M valuation when he reportedly rejected a $20M acquisition offer previously. Jonathan defends the valuation based on investor appetite, market context, and high client retention.
Customer Unit Economics and Ecosystem Expansion 6425 Nathan cuts through general talk of platform releases to demand specific drivers behind their largest $7,000/month customer. Jonathan details their seat-based pricing model that encompasses vendors and broader family office ecosystems.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Fishback: Family offices are expanding into lifestyle fulfillment services
“In the last 10 years, family offices specifically have started getting into the fulfillment of the lifestyle of the individual that they're serving, whether it's a single or multifamily.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 2:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EstateSpace onboarded 65 family offices within five months of commercial launch
“Right now we've got about 65 family offices on the platform in the last, when we launched what was it? April 30th of this year.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 3:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Only 5% of EstateSpace's $2.2M 2021 revenue came from SaaS
“Yeah, it was like no, not zero percent, but maybe five percent of that revenue was SAS revenue.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 4:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EstateSpace crossed $250,000 in ARR within five months of launching
“So we're probably, we just crossed 250,000 and recurring revenue. In ARR in the past five months since we launched.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 5:13
Disclosure
EstateSpace is currently raising a $3.25M funding round
“So I'm, we're raising around 3.25 million.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 6:13
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Jonathan Fishback predicts EstateSpace will reach $2M SaaS ARR in 2023
“We'll be about two million dollars in ARR by the end of next year, and it'll all be SAS.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 6:17
Disclosure
EstateSpace is raising an equity round at a $17M pre-money valuation
“So we did we're just, we're doing pure equity sell common stocks and we set a seventeen million dollar free money.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 7:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EstateSpace maintains over a 90% retention rate for paying clients
“We have over a 90% retention rate for paying clients.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 9:18
Opinion
Fishback rejected a $20M acquisition offer, believing EstateSpace is worth more
“I see this company being much more valuable than twenty million dollars, and I was not in a position.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 10:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
EstateSpace's largest single client pays approximately $7,000 per month
“Our largest client is about 7000 of that a month.”
Jonathan Fishbeck Dec 28, 2022 ▶ 11:03
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