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Mar 22, 2023 · 17m · top-founders

He's $14m in ARR, Here's why he IPO'd and plans to grow 30% this year

Daniel Wickberg · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, Nathan Latka speaks with UpSales founder and CEO Daniel Wickberg to discuss how the Stockholm-listed B2B CRM platform bootstrapped to $14.4 million in ARR and $250,000 monthly net profit. Wickberg shares insights into targeting Scandinavian mid-market enterprises, optimizing revenue per employee, overhauling sales hiring, and leveraging an early public listing for growth.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 39.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 0.8 Nathan pushing back 1.8
05100:0010:000:00–3:08 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 FounderPath Valuation Tool Overview and Promotion Nathan spends the majority of the segment on a Founderpath promotional read and episode intro before engaging Daniel on how UpSales achieved profitable organic growth in the Scandinavian mid-market.3:09–6:12 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Target Verticals and Manufacturing Proposal Automation Nathan compares historical metrics from past interviews regarding seven-year ramps to $1M ARR and shifting ARPU figures. Daniel explains how UpSales solves complex CPQ proposal workflows for manufacturers and clarifies why apparent ARPU drops were distorted by legacy partner accounts.6:12–9:14 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fortnox White-Label Partnership and Migration Nathan probes the mechanics and kickbacks of the Fortnox white-label migration and calculates ARR velocity. Daniel details their land-and-expand strategy and the opportunity to triple revenue without adding new logos.9:14–12:26 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Operating Profitability and Revenue per Employee Nathan demonstrates deep recall of the company's 2019 sales comp structures ($20k base on $200k quota). Daniel acknowledges the previous high-turnover junior sales strategy failed and outlines their transition to enterprise reps carrying $1M quotas.12:26–15:01 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Growth Targets and Public Valuation Clarification Nathan looks up Yahoo Finance and questions whether UpSales has a $1.2B market cap at extreme multiples. Daniel immediately schools Nathan by clarifying the listing is in Swedish Krona (SEK), bringing the real valuation to roughly $120M USD.15:02–17:18 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering geopolitical reading, LinkedIn automation tooling, and sleep habits, with Daniel lightly correcting his age from 41 to 42.0:00–3:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 FounderPath Valuation Tool Overview and Promotion Nathan spends the majority of the segment on a Founderpath promotional read and episode intro before engaging Daniel on how UpSales achieved profitable organic growth in the Scandinavian mid-market.3:09–6:12 · Guest teaching 4/10 Target Verticals and Manufacturing Proposal Automation Nathan compares historical metrics from past interviews regarding seven-year ramps to $1M ARR and shifting ARPU figures. Daniel explains how UpSales solves complex CPQ proposal workflows for manufacturers and clarifies why apparent ARPU drops were distorted by legacy partner accounts.6:12–9:14 · Guest teaching 3/10 Fortnox White-Label Partnership and Migration Nathan probes the mechanics and kickbacks of the Fortnox white-label migration and calculates ARR velocity. Daniel details their land-and-expand strategy and the opportunity to triple revenue without adding new logos.9:14–12:26 · Guest teaching 3/10 Operating Profitability and Revenue per Employee Nathan demonstrates deep recall of the company's 2019 sales comp structures ($20k base on $200k quota). Daniel acknowledges the previous high-turnover junior sales strategy failed and outlines their transition to enterprise reps carrying $1M quotas.12:26–15:01 · Guest teaching 6/10 Growth Targets and Public Valuation Clarification Nathan looks up Yahoo Finance and questions whether UpSales has a $1.2B market cap at extreme multiples. Daniel immediately schools Nathan by clarifying the listing is in Swedish Krona (SEK), bringing the real valuation to roughly $120M USD.15:02–17:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering geopolitical reading, LinkedIn automation tooling, and sleep habits, with Daniel lightly correcting his age from 41 to 42.0:00–3:08 · Guest disagreement 0/10 FounderPath Valuation Tool Overview and Promotion Nathan spends the majority of the segment on a Founderpath promotional read and episode intro before engaging Daniel on how UpSales achieved profitable organic growth in the Scandinavian mid-market.3:09–6:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Target Verticals and Manufacturing Proposal Automation Nathan compares historical metrics from past interviews regarding seven-year ramps to $1M ARR and shifting ARPU figures. Daniel explains how UpSales solves complex CPQ proposal workflows for manufacturers and clarifies why apparent ARPU drops were distorted by legacy partner accounts.6:12–9:14 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Fortnox White-Label Partnership and Migration Nathan probes the mechanics and kickbacks of the Fortnox white-label migration and calculates ARR velocity. Daniel details their land-and-expand strategy and the opportunity to triple revenue without adding new logos.9:14–12:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Operating Profitability and Revenue per Employee Nathan demonstrates deep recall of the company's 2019 sales comp structures ($20k base on $200k quota). Daniel acknowledges the previous high-turnover junior sales strategy failed and outlines their transition to enterprise reps carrying $1M quotas.12:26–15:01 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Growth Targets and Public Valuation Clarification Nathan looks up Yahoo Finance and questions whether UpSales has a $1.2B market cap at extreme multiples. Daniel immediately schools Nathan by clarifying the listing is in Swedish Krona (SEK), bringing the real valuation to roughly $120M USD.15:02–17:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering geopolitical reading, LinkedIn automation tooling, and sleep habits, with Daniel lightly correcting his age from 41 to 42.0:00–3:08 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 FounderPath Valuation Tool Overview and Promotion Nathan spends the majority of the segment on a Founderpath promotional read and episode intro before engaging Daniel on how UpSales achieved profitable organic growth in the Scandinavian mid-market.3:09–6:12 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Target Verticals and Manufacturing Proposal Automation Nathan compares historical metrics from past interviews regarding seven-year ramps to $1M ARR and shifting ARPU figures. Daniel explains how UpSales solves complex CPQ proposal workflows for manufacturers and clarifies why apparent ARPU drops were distorted by legacy partner accounts.6:12–9:14 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Fortnox White-Label Partnership and Migration Nathan probes the mechanics and kickbacks of the Fortnox white-label migration and calculates ARR velocity. Daniel details their land-and-expand strategy and the opportunity to triple revenue without adding new logos.9:14–12:26 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Operating Profitability and Revenue per Employee Nathan demonstrates deep recall of the company's 2019 sales comp structures ($20k base on $200k quota). Daniel acknowledges the previous high-turnover junior sales strategy failed and outlines their transition to enterprise reps carrying $1M quotas.12:26–15:01 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Growth Targets and Public Valuation Clarification Nathan looks up Yahoo Finance and questions whether UpSales has a $1.2B market cap at extreme multiples. Daniel immediately schools Nathan by clarifying the listing is in Swedish Krona (SEK), bringing the real valuation to roughly $120M USD.15:02–17:18 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering geopolitical reading, LinkedIn automation tooling, and sleep habits, with Daniel lightly correcting his age from 41 to 42.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 86.7% · guest 13.3%0:00 · Nathan 86.7% · guest 13.3%3:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%3:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%6:00 · Nathan 21.8% · guest 78.2%6:00 · Nathan 21.8% · guest 78.2%9:00 · Nathan 29.2% · guest 70.8%9:00 · Nathan 29.2% · guest 70.8%12:00 · Nathan 23.1% · guest 76.9%12:00 · Nathan 23.1% · guest 76.9%15:00 · Nathan 53.4% · guest 46.6%15:00 · Nathan 53.4% · guest 46.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:30 Daniel dismisses junior sales shotgun approach

Daniel candidly rejects their old sales hiring model as a painful banging-the-head-against-the-wall strategy that burn out high performers.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 4:34 Nathan challenges the 7-year ramp to $1M ARR

Nathan tells Daniel that most founders taking seven years to reach one million dollars in revenue should give up and start something new.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:27 SEK currency correction on public market cap

Daniel corrects Nathan's live reading of a 1.2 billion market cap on Yahoo Finance, educating him that Stockholm listings are priced in Swedish Krona and must be divided by ten.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:07 Nathan cites historical comp and quota ratios

Nathan demonstrates mastery of SaaS unit economics and past interview memory by reciting Daniel's exact 2019 $20k base and $200k quota metrics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
FounderPath Valuation Tool Overview and Promotion 4201 Nathan spends the majority of the segment on a Founderpath promotional read and episode intro before engaging Daniel on how UpSales achieved profitable organic growth in the Scandinavian mid-market.
Target Verticals and Manufacturing Proposal Automation 6413 Nathan compares historical metrics from past interviews regarding seven-year ramps to $1M ARR and shifting ARPU figures. Daniel explains how UpSales solves complex CPQ proposal workflows for manufacturers and clarifies why apparent ARPU drops were distorted by legacy partner accounts.
Fortnox White-Label Partnership and Migration 6302 Nathan probes the mechanics and kickbacks of the Fortnox white-label migration and calculates ARR velocity. Daniel details their land-and-expand strategy and the opportunity to triple revenue without adding new logos.
Operating Profitability and Revenue per Employee 7312 Nathan demonstrates deep recall of the company's 2019 sales comp structures ($20k base on $200k quota). Daniel acknowledges the previous high-turnover junior sales strategy failed and outlines their transition to enterprise reps carrying $1M quotas.
Growth Targets and Public Valuation Clarification 5622 Nathan looks up Yahoo Finance and questions whether UpSales has a $1.2B market cap at extreme multiples. Daniel immediately schools Nathan by clarifying the listing is in Swedish Krona (SEK), bringing the real valuation to roughly $120M USD.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4211 Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions covering geopolitical reading, LinkedIn automation tooling, and sleep habits, with Daniel lightly correcting his age from 41 to 42.

Statements from this episode (13)

Insight
Latka: Founders should quit if not reaching $1M ARR within four years
“I would tell most people, if you can't do it in three or four, just quit, give up, and start something new.”
Nathan Latka Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 4:43
Assertion Supported
Wickberg: UpSales current MRR is around $1.2 million
“Yeah, it's around 1.2 million dollars is the current MRR.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 7:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wickberg: Two-thirds of UpSales growth comes from existing accounts
“So, so I think maybe two thirds come from existing accounts and one third from new accounts.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 8:03
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Wickberg: UpSales can triple revenue from existing customer base alone
“So when I talk to investors, I usually say that we think that we can triple our revenue without bringing in a single new customer because the potential in the existing customer base is still massive.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 8:44
Assertion Supported
UpSales sustains approximately $250,000 in monthly net profit
“Yeah, I mean, I would say pretty much the same. We had a really good quarter in, in Q four.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 9:30
Assertion Supported
UpSales generates around $200,000 in annual revenue per employee
“I mean, I think now we are at around maybe 200,000 dollars per employee per year in revenue, something like that.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 9:57
Insight
Wickberg: Enterprise sales reps can carry 3x larger quotas upmarket
“We realized that the right type of salesperson can carry like a three times bigger quota.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 10:48
Insight
Wickberg: High-churn graduate sales hiring burns out top performers long-term
“It, it's not a long-term initiative because the people who are able to hit the numbers, they grow tired of this kind of banging the head against the wall strategy.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 11:46
Disclosure
Wickberg: UpSales sets $500k to $1M quotas for experienced sales reps
“Now we are more and more looking for, you know, people with five, at least five years of experience selling software and giving them a quota between 500,000 dollars up to a million dollars per year.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 11:59
Disclosure
Wickberg: UpSales pays $120k to $150k OTE for $1M quota reps
“Their OTE would be around Between a 120 or a 150,000 dollars.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 12:18
Opinion
Wickberg: Adding 5 to 10 good salespeople could boost growth to 50%
“Just finding five or 10 more good salespeople can bring us from 30% to 50% in growth rate.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 13:14
Disclosure
Wickberg limits public investor meetings to two days per quarter
“So I spent two days every quarter in investor meetings always in, in relation to when we released the quarterly reports.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 14:26
Opinion
Wickberg: Public listing aids recruiting through financial transparency
“Especially when recruiting people, it has been an advantage that, you know, people can read our numbers and read the CEO comments and yeah, you get some increased exposure basically.”
Daniel Wickberg Mar 22, 2023 ▶ 14:45
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