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Mar 2, 2023 · 18m · top-founders

Paragon Grew from $1m to $3m ARR Last 12 Months to Help you Connect To your customers apps faster

Brandon Foo · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview, Nathan Latka speaks with Brandon Foo, co-founder and CEO of Paragon, about scaling their embedded integration platform from $1 million to $3 million in ARR. Foo breaks down Paragon's usage-based pricing model, disciplined capital allocation following a $13 million Series A, and how economic downturns accelerate demand for outsourced integration infrastructure.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 38.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 1.7 Nathan pushing back 4.5
05100:0010:000:37–3:29 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Executive Summary of Paragon's Growth Metrics Nathan digs into the economics and exit details of Brandon's prior startup Polymail, probing whether it was sold at cost and referencing their past interview numbers. Brandon provides transparent, matter-of-fact answers without pushback.3:30–7:14 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Paragon Product Architecture and Market Positioning Nathan compares Paragon to Codat and challenges the feasibility of pricing and real-time syncing limits. Brandon clarifies how Paragon's visual workflow builder differs and explains that the 1M tasks/month tier comfortably handles heavy synchronization.7:14–10:48 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Fundraising History, Seed to Series A Scaling Nathan presses Brandon on seed stage dilution math and Y Combinator standard terms, calculating implied valuations. Brandon clarifies how blending the YC check with outside seed capital yielded standard dilution.10:48–14:19 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Go-to-Market Evolution and Revenue Growth Nathan challenges Brandon on circular YC revenue and aggressive Series A revenue multiples leading to underwater employee stock options. Brandon pushes back on the 100x+ multiple math and explains that customer growth expanded well beyond the YC cohort.14:19–16:53 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Long-Term Vision, Capital Preservation, and Efficiency Nathan questions Brandon's net burn and cash management heading into a potential recession. Brandon articulates their focus on burn multiple, efficiency, and positioning integration tooling as a cost-saving measure for engineering teams.16:53–17:56 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts his rapid-fire 'Famous Five' questioning sequence, with Brandon providing concise, cooperative responses.0:37–3:29 · Guest teaching 2/10 Executive Summary of Paragon's Growth Metrics Nathan digs into the economics and exit details of Brandon's prior startup Polymail, probing whether it was sold at cost and referencing their past interview numbers. Brandon provides transparent, matter-of-fact answers without pushback.3:30–7:14 · Guest teaching 5/10 Paragon Product Architecture and Market Positioning Nathan compares Paragon to Codat and challenges the feasibility of pricing and real-time syncing limits. Brandon clarifies how Paragon's visual workflow builder differs and explains that the 1M tasks/month tier comfortably handles heavy synchronization.7:14–10:48 · Guest teaching 3/10 Fundraising History, Seed to Series A Scaling Nathan presses Brandon on seed stage dilution math and Y Combinator standard terms, calculating implied valuations. Brandon clarifies how blending the YC check with outside seed capital yielded standard dilution.10:48–14:19 · Guest teaching 3/10 Go-to-Market Evolution and Revenue Growth Nathan challenges Brandon on circular YC revenue and aggressive Series A revenue multiples leading to underwater employee stock options. Brandon pushes back on the 100x+ multiple math and explains that customer growth expanded well beyond the YC cohort.14:19–16:53 · Guest teaching 3/10 Long-Term Vision, Capital Preservation, and Efficiency Nathan questions Brandon's net burn and cash management heading into a potential recession. Brandon articulates their focus on burn multiple, efficiency, and positioning integration tooling as a cost-saving measure for engineering teams.16:53–17:56 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts his rapid-fire 'Famous Five' questioning sequence, with Brandon providing concise, cooperative responses.0:37–3:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Executive Summary of Paragon's Growth Metrics Nathan digs into the economics and exit details of Brandon's prior startup Polymail, probing whether it was sold at cost and referencing their past interview numbers. Brandon provides transparent, matter-of-fact answers without pushback.3:30–7:14 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Paragon Product Architecture and Market Positioning Nathan compares Paragon to Codat and challenges the feasibility of pricing and real-time syncing limits. Brandon clarifies how Paragon's visual workflow builder differs and explains that the 1M tasks/month tier comfortably handles heavy synchronization.7:14–10:48 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Fundraising History, Seed to Series A Scaling Nathan presses Brandon on seed stage dilution math and Y Combinator standard terms, calculating implied valuations. Brandon clarifies how blending the YC check with outside seed capital yielded standard dilution.10:48–14:19 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Go-to-Market Evolution and Revenue Growth Nathan challenges Brandon on circular YC revenue and aggressive Series A revenue multiples leading to underwater employee stock options. Brandon pushes back on the 100x+ multiple math and explains that customer growth expanded well beyond the YC cohort.14:19–16:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Long-Term Vision, Capital Preservation, and Efficiency Nathan questions Brandon's net burn and cash management heading into a potential recession. Brandon articulates their focus on burn multiple, efficiency, and positioning integration tooling as a cost-saving measure for engineering teams.16:53–17:56 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts his rapid-fire 'Famous Five' questioning sequence, with Brandon providing concise, cooperative responses.0:37–3:29 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Executive Summary of Paragon's Growth Metrics Nathan digs into the economics and exit details of Brandon's prior startup Polymail, probing whether it was sold at cost and referencing their past interview numbers. Brandon provides transparent, matter-of-fact answers without pushback.3:30–7:14 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Paragon Product Architecture and Market Positioning Nathan compares Paragon to Codat and challenges the feasibility of pricing and real-time syncing limits. Brandon clarifies how Paragon's visual workflow builder differs and explains that the 1M tasks/month tier comfortably handles heavy synchronization.7:14–10:48 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Fundraising History, Seed to Series A Scaling Nathan presses Brandon on seed stage dilution math and Y Combinator standard terms, calculating implied valuations. Brandon clarifies how blending the YC check with outside seed capital yielded standard dilution.10:48–14:19 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Go-to-Market Evolution and Revenue Growth Nathan challenges Brandon on circular YC revenue and aggressive Series A revenue multiples leading to underwater employee stock options. Brandon pushes back on the 100x+ multiple math and explains that customer growth expanded well beyond the YC cohort.14:19–16:53 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Long-Term Vision, Capital Preservation, and Efficiency Nathan questions Brandon's net burn and cash management heading into a potential recession. Brandon articulates their focus on burn multiple, efficiency, and positioning integration tooling as a cost-saving measure for engineering teams.16:53–17:56 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts his rapid-fire 'Famous Five' questioning sequence, with Brandon providing concise, cooperative responses.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 77.3% · guest 22.7%0:00 · Nathan 77.3% · guest 22.7%3:00 · Nathan 24.2% · guest 75.8%3:00 · Nathan 24.2% · guest 75.8%6:00 · Nathan 44.2% · guest 55.8%6:00 · Nathan 44.2% · guest 55.8%9:00 · Nathan 21% · guest 79%9:00 · Nathan 21% · guest 79%12:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%12:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%15:00 · Nathan 18.6% · guest 81.4%15:00 · Nathan 18.6% · guest 81.4%18:00 · Nathan 96.7% · guest 3.3%18:00 · Nathan 96.7% · guest 3.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:56 Correcting valuation assumption

Brandon directly refutes Nathan's aggressive mathematical assumption that Paragon raised at an implied 120x revenue multiple, noting the actual range was distinctly different.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:29 Challenging underwater employee equity

Nathan aggressively challenges the founder on raising at unsustainable peak-market multiples that leave employee option pools deep underwater.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:20 Explaining visual workflow architecture vs API wrappers

Brandon explains the architectural and UX distinction between simple embedded data connectors like Codat and Paragon's full visual workflow editor and SDK.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:22 Calculating implied dilution from YC standard terms

Nathan demonstrates mastery of cap table mechanics by calculating the exact dilutive impact of YC's $150k for 7% check relative to broader seed rounds.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Executive Summary of Paragon's Growth Metrics 6214 Nathan digs into the economics and exit details of Brandon's prior startup Polymail, probing whether it was sold at cost and referencing their past interview numbers. Brandon provides transparent, matter-of-fact answers without pushback.
Paragon Product Architecture and Market Positioning 6524 Nathan compares Paragon to Codat and challenges the feasibility of pricing and real-time syncing limits. Brandon clarifies how Paragon's visual workflow builder differs and explains that the 1M tasks/month tier comfortably handles heavy synchronization.
Fundraising History, Seed to Series A Scaling 7326 Nathan presses Brandon on seed stage dilution math and Y Combinator standard terms, calculating implied valuations. Brandon clarifies how blending the YC check with outside seed capital yielded standard dilution.
Go-to-Market Evolution and Revenue Growth 7337 Nathan challenges Brandon on circular YC revenue and aggressive Series A revenue multiples leading to underwater employee stock options. Brandon pushes back on the 100x+ multiple math and explains that customer growth expanded well beyond the YC cohort.
Long-Term Vision, Capital Preservation, and Efficiency 5325 Nathan questions Brandon's net burn and cash management heading into a potential recession. Brandon articulates their focus on burn multiple, efficiency, and positioning integration tooling as a cost-saving measure for engineering teams.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3101 Nathan conducts his rapid-fire 'Famous Five' questioning sequence, with Brandon providing concise, cooperative responses.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Foo: Polymail sold in a small exit to an early investor
“Ultimately we sold it to one of our investors. So again, it was a very small exit.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 2:15
Opinion
Foo: Email software lacked venture-scale growth potential despite strong adoption
“We had tens of thousands of active users but the email space is tough. And I think, you know, it wasn't necessarily something that had the potential to grow into a venture scale business.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 3:04
Disclosure
Paragon's average ACV is $30k to $40k, moving toward six figures
“On average today, our customers are coming in around 30 to 40 K ACV that has grown over time. And now we're starting to work more towards mid market and even enterprise. So we're starting to work towards six figure plus ACV range.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 5:41
Disclosure
Paragon's $30,000 tier includes 5 integrations and 1 million monthly tasks
“Typically our 30,000 a year package would include around five integrations up to, let's say a million tasks or requests per month.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 6:01
Disclosure
Paragon raised a $13M Series A in 2022 and employs 30
“So we started Paragon in the end of 2019. We're about three and a half years old now. I think we raised we went through Y Combinator in winter, 2020. I raised a small seed round about two, three million dollars back then. And just raised our series A, thirteen…”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 7:17
Disclosure
Paragon had just one AE alongside CEO Brandon Foo before Series A
“Before our Series A, we were in a position where it was really just me and I think one account executive who was leading sales.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 10:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Foo: Paragon serves just over 100 customers globally
“So we work with just over a hundred customers today around the world.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 12:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Paragon grew nearly 3x over the prior year from $1M ARR
“So we grew by a little bit close to three X in the last year. So we started, yeah, last year around, I'd say the one million euro range.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 12:26
Disclosure
Foo: Paragon established its ESOP pool at Series A, not seed
“Not at our seed rounds, but at our series A.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 13:26
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Latka: Top fast-growing software companies get only 8x to 10x multiples
“Even fast growing tax companies today, the best ones are getting only like eight, nine, 10 X.”
Nathan Latka Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 14:08
Disclosure
Paragon retains most of its $13 million Series A funding
“Yeah, so we do have a large percentage of our Series A funding.”
Brandon Foo Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 15:21
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