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Dec 28, 2023 · 22m · top-founders

How to Generate $6m of Revenue and keep 100% Equity with BadgerMaps CEO

Steve Benson · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Badger Maps CEO Steve Benson joins Nathan Latka to discuss bootstrapping a field sales routing platform to $6 million in ARR across 4,100 customers using non-dilutive debt financing and targeted CRM integrations.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 34.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.1 Nathan pushing back 2.1
05100:0010:0020:000:39–3:48 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Steve Benson and Badger Maps Latka guides Benson through the rationale for launching niche media, explicitly nudging him to articulate why a small, targeted ICP audience matters more than raw download volume.3:48–6:52 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Bootstrapping, Revenue Growth, and Why VC Isn't for Everyone Latka references historical revenue milestones from past interviews and discusses the origins of non-dilutive debt financing, while Benson details why venture capital economics fail for niche SaaS businesses.6:52–9:18 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Navigating COVID-19 and Expanding into Field Service Benson corrects Latka's assumption that the company did not lose revenue during COVID, revealing an 8% contraction before recovering via field service accounts.9:19–12:13 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sales Funnel, Lead Volume, and Team Structure Latka challenges Benson's characterization of 500 weekly calls as light, calculating the per-rep load and prompting Benson to explain offshore support tiers.12:13–15:17 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 CRM Integrations, Customer Economics, and Revenue Metrics Latka performs live mental math on Benson's 4,100 customer count and $6M ARR, clarifying the difference between logos and seat licenses to determine average contract size.15:18–19:36 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 The Mechanics of Non-Dilutive SaaS Debt Financing Latka presses Benson for an objective critique of debt providers, prompting Benson to give a breakdown of warrant-dilution traps versus automated recurring lines.19:36–21:52 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Rapid-Fire Famous Five Questions A relaxed Famous Five concluding segment where Benson reflects on his corporate career at IBM and Google before embracing entrepreneurship.0:39–3:48 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Steve Benson and Badger Maps Latka guides Benson through the rationale for launching niche media, explicitly nudging him to articulate why a small, targeted ICP audience matters more than raw download volume.3:48–6:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapping, Revenue Growth, and Why VC Isn't for Everyone Latka references historical revenue milestones from past interviews and discusses the origins of non-dilutive debt financing, while Benson details why venture capital economics fail for niche SaaS businesses.6:52–9:18 · Guest teaching 4/10 Navigating COVID-19 and Expanding into Field Service Benson corrects Latka's assumption that the company did not lose revenue during COVID, revealing an 8% contraction before recovering via field service accounts.9:19–12:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Sales Funnel, Lead Volume, and Team Structure Latka challenges Benson's characterization of 500 weekly calls as light, calculating the per-rep load and prompting Benson to explain offshore support tiers.12:13–15:17 · Guest teaching 2/10 CRM Integrations, Customer Economics, and Revenue Metrics Latka performs live mental math on Benson's 4,100 customer count and $6M ARR, clarifying the difference between logos and seat licenses to determine average contract size.15:18–19:36 · Guest teaching 4/10 The Mechanics of Non-Dilutive SaaS Debt Financing Latka presses Benson for an objective critique of debt providers, prompting Benson to give a breakdown of warrant-dilution traps versus automated recurring lines.19:36–21:52 · Guest teaching 1/10 Rapid-Fire Famous Five Questions A relaxed Famous Five concluding segment where Benson reflects on his corporate career at IBM and Google before embracing entrepreneurship.0:39–3:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Steve Benson and Badger Maps Latka guides Benson through the rationale for launching niche media, explicitly nudging him to articulate why a small, targeted ICP audience matters more than raw download volume.3:48–6:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapping, Revenue Growth, and Why VC Isn't for Everyone Latka references historical revenue milestones from past interviews and discusses the origins of non-dilutive debt financing, while Benson details why venture capital economics fail for niche SaaS businesses.6:52–9:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Navigating COVID-19 and Expanding into Field Service Benson corrects Latka's assumption that the company did not lose revenue during COVID, revealing an 8% contraction before recovering via field service accounts.9:19–12:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sales Funnel, Lead Volume, and Team Structure Latka challenges Benson's characterization of 500 weekly calls as light, calculating the per-rep load and prompting Benson to explain offshore support tiers.12:13–15:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 CRM Integrations, Customer Economics, and Revenue Metrics Latka performs live mental math on Benson's 4,100 customer count and $6M ARR, clarifying the difference between logos and seat licenses to determine average contract size.15:18–19:36 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Mechanics of Non-Dilutive SaaS Debt Financing Latka presses Benson for an objective critique of debt providers, prompting Benson to give a breakdown of warrant-dilution traps versus automated recurring lines.19:36–21:52 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Rapid-Fire Famous Five Questions A relaxed Famous Five concluding segment where Benson reflects on his corporate career at IBM and Google before embracing entrepreneurship.0:39–3:48 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Steve Benson and Badger Maps Latka guides Benson through the rationale for launching niche media, explicitly nudging him to articulate why a small, targeted ICP audience matters more than raw download volume.3:48–6:52 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Bootstrapping, Revenue Growth, and Why VC Isn't for Everyone Latka references historical revenue milestones from past interviews and discusses the origins of non-dilutive debt financing, while Benson details why venture capital economics fail for niche SaaS businesses.6:52–9:18 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Navigating COVID-19 and Expanding into Field Service Benson corrects Latka's assumption that the company did not lose revenue during COVID, revealing an 8% contraction before recovering via field service accounts.9:19–12:13 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Sales Funnel, Lead Volume, and Team Structure Latka challenges Benson's characterization of 500 weekly calls as light, calculating the per-rep load and prompting Benson to explain offshore support tiers.12:13–15:17 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 CRM Integrations, Customer Economics, and Revenue Metrics Latka performs live mental math on Benson's 4,100 customer count and $6M ARR, clarifying the difference between logos and seat licenses to determine average contract size.15:18–19:36 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Mechanics of Non-Dilutive SaaS Debt Financing Latka presses Benson for an objective critique of debt providers, prompting Benson to give a breakdown of warrant-dilution traps versus automated recurring lines.19:36–21:52 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Rapid-Fire Famous Five Questions A relaxed Famous Five concluding segment where Benson reflects on his corporate career at IBM and Google before embracing entrepreneurship.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 76.9% · guest 23.1%0:00 · Nathan 76.9% · guest 23.1%3:00 · Nathan 33% · guest 67%3:00 · Nathan 33% · guest 67%6:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%6:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%9:00 · Nathan 30.6% · guest 69.4%9:00 · Nathan 30.6% · guest 69.4%12:00 · Nathan 23.7% · guest 76.3%12:00 · Nathan 23.7% · guest 76.3%15:00 · Nathan 19.3% · guest 80.7%15:00 · Nathan 19.3% · guest 80.7%18:00 · Nathan 23.4% · guest 76.6%18:00 · Nathan 23.4% · guest 76.6%21:00 · Nathan 50.1% · guest 49.9%21:00 · Nathan 50.1% · guest 49.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:39 Steve reframing the COVID revenue narrative

Benson pushes back on Latka's flattering claim that Badger Maps sailed through COVID untouched, pointing out an initial 8% shrinkage.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:37 Nathan challenging demo call capacity

Latka refuses Benson's dismissal that 500 weekly calls is minimal, insisting that 40 calls per rep per week is significant volume.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:33 Steve detailing warrant debt economics

Benson educates listeners on the hidden cost of venture debt structures that require equity warrants when a SaaS startup outperforms.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:30 Nathan calculating unit economics instantly

Latka showcases analytical fluency by breaking down $6M ARR across 4,100 logos to arrive at exact monthly ARPU and seat density.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Steve Benson and Badger Maps 5112 Latka guides Benson through the rationale for launching niche media, explicitly nudging him to articulate why a small, targeted ICP audience matters more than raw download volume.
Bootstrapping, Revenue Growth, and Why VC Isn't for Everyone 6211 Latka references historical revenue milestones from past interviews and discusses the origins of non-dilutive debt financing, while Benson details why venture capital economics fail for niche SaaS businesses.
Navigating COVID-19 and Expanding into Field Service 4423 Benson corrects Latka's assumption that the company did not lose revenue during COVID, revealing an 8% contraction before recovering via field service accounts.
Sales Funnel, Lead Volume, and Team Structure 6313 Latka challenges Benson's characterization of 500 weekly calls as light, calculating the per-rep load and prompting Benson to explain offshore support tiers.
CRM Integrations, Customer Economics, and Revenue Metrics 7212 Latka performs live mental math on Benson's 4,100 customer count and $6M ARR, clarifying the difference between logos and seat licenses to determine average contract size.
The Mechanics of Non-Dilutive SaaS Debt Financing 6423 Latka presses Benson for an objective critique of debt providers, prompting Benson to give a breakdown of warrant-dilution traps versus automated recurring lines.
Rapid-Fire Famous Five Questions 3101 A relaxed Famous Five concluding segment where Benson reflects on his corporate career at IBM and Google before embracing entrepreneurship.

Statements from this episode (10)

Insight
Benson: B2B SaaS podcasts should target micro-niches over audience size
“You don't have to have a huge podcast. You have to have a podcast that is very specifically valuable in some way to a very specific group of people, your ideal customer profile. And, you know, some people have larger TAMs than others, and so it can be more bro…”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 3:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Badger Maps has reached $6 million in annual recurring revenue
“Today we're at six million in ARR.”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 4:08
Opinion
Most SaaS companies are a bad fit for venture capital economics
“I don't think that SaaS companies are always a good fit for venture capital. And I'd say a lot more often than not, they're not a good fit for venture capital. There's so many small problems in the world that don't have, aren't, just don't have the explosive g…”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 5:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Badger Maps revenue shrank 8% in 2020 due to COVID-19
“We still, we shrunk about eight percent in 2020, because as you say, it's a bad time to be meeting your customers face to face.”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 7:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Badger Maps generates roughly 2,000 verified leads per month
“We count things either a first meeting or a signed up trial is, is a, you know, verified lead. And we're doing about 500 a week. So 2000 a month.”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 10:17
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Salesforce drives the most leads of any Badger Maps CRM integration
“Salesforce is definitely the largest in terms of like leads and people interested, which makes sense, right?”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 12:23
Insight
Zoho customers are significantly less likely to buy software add-ons
“So if someone who's purchased Zoho is, is showing that they're more cost conscience, they're willing to take shortcuts. They want the cheaper thing. And so it, they're less likely to purchase add-ons of this nature.”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 12:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Badger Maps has just over 4,000 paying customers
“We have just over 4000 customers.”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 13:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Badger Maps grew 29% in 2022 and expects 15% in 2023
“We grew like 29% last year. I think we're around 15% is where we'll come in for this year, but so it's, but it's off a bigger number.”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 15:24
Insight
Warrant-backed venture debt becomes drastically more expensive for successful startups
“The trade-off being there that, that often, if you're doing well, that ends up being a much, much more expensive debt. If you're, if you don't do well, then that ends up being cheaper debt because the exchange in exchange for the warrants, you don't, You pay a…”
Steve Benson Dec 28, 2023 ▶ 16:51
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