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Mar 19, 2024 · 27m · top-founders

This Software for Doctors hit $51m revenue last year (100% growth). $5m profit.

Jay Ackerman · 14m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of Conversations with Nathan Latka, Revolier CEO Jay Ackerman breaks down how his healthcare analytics SaaS doubled revenue to $51 million with 10% EBITDA margins through disciplined pricing changes, strategic M&A, and non-dilutive venture debt.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.4 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 1.6 Nathan pushing back 2.7
05100:0010:0020:000:38–3:16 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Revolier Performance Overview and Debt Financing Summary Nathan introduces Revolier's financial profile from memory and filings, including revenue doubling, EBITDA margins, and ACV growth. Jay politely clarifies their timeline to achieving positive cash flow, which took until 2023 rather than 2019.3:17–7:33 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Core Product Mechanics and Chronic Healthcare Data Synthesis Nathan presents a hypothetical personal scenario about buying strep throat medication at CVS to understand the data sweep. Jay corrects the premise, explaining the platform focuses strictly on longitudinal chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease in Medicare/Medicaid patients.7:33–9:51 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Transition to Per-Member-Per-Month Pricing and ACV Growth Nathan tracks the company's metrics from their prior 2019 conversation, pointing out the customer expansion and tripled ACV. Jay explains why they transitioned away from cellular-style pre-purchased unit pricing to a standardized per-member-per-month model.9:52–14:26 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Strategic M&A Execution and Integration of Acquired Companies Nathan asks detailed questions about M&A post-merger integration risks, headcount, and revenue baselines. Jay clarifies the difference between the two acquired targets, noting Dynamic was an 8 million ARR cash generator while MD Portals was smaller.14:27–16:49 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Structuring Integration Playbooks with Advisory Support from Ankura Nathan probes into the external operational consulting utilized to standardize M&A playbooks. Jay walks through how Ankura helped structure sequential workstreams across back office, sales, and product.16:50–23:39 · Nathan as informed peer 9/10 Revenue Scaling Milestones and Stretch Goal to One-Hundred Million Nathan cites granular data from Hercules Capital's public 10-Q filings, mentioning comparable portfolio loan rates, exit fee percentages for Sisense and Susie, and total B2B SaaS exposure. Jay confirms they achieved favorable terms on the lower end of Hercules' typical yield band.23:40–26:50 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Executive Insights During the rapid-fire questions, Nathan incorrectly guesses the author of Breathe as Brene Brown before correcting to James Nestor. Nathan also pushes on the realistic extent of AI deployment across the organization, which Jay estimates at 25-30%.0:38–3:16 · Guest teaching 4/10 Revolier Performance Overview and Debt Financing Summary Nathan introduces Revolier's financial profile from memory and filings, including revenue doubling, EBITDA margins, and ACV growth. Jay politely clarifies their timeline to achieving positive cash flow, which took until 2023 rather than 2019.3:17–7:33 · Guest teaching 6/10 Core Product Mechanics and Chronic Healthcare Data Synthesis Nathan presents a hypothetical personal scenario about buying strep throat medication at CVS to understand the data sweep. Jay corrects the premise, explaining the platform focuses strictly on longitudinal chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease in Medicare/Medicaid patients.7:33–9:51 · Guest teaching 3/10 Transition to Per-Member-Per-Month Pricing and ACV Growth Nathan tracks the company's metrics from their prior 2019 conversation, pointing out the customer expansion and tripled ACV. Jay explains why they transitioned away from cellular-style pre-purchased unit pricing to a standardized per-member-per-month model.9:52–14:26 · Guest teaching 4/10 Strategic M&A Execution and Integration of Acquired Companies Nathan asks detailed questions about M&A post-merger integration risks, headcount, and revenue baselines. Jay clarifies the difference between the two acquired targets, noting Dynamic was an 8 million ARR cash generator while MD Portals was smaller.14:27–16:49 · Guest teaching 4/10 Structuring Integration Playbooks with Advisory Support from Ankura Nathan probes into the external operational consulting utilized to standardize M&A playbooks. Jay walks through how Ankura helped structure sequential workstreams across back office, sales, and product.16:50–23:39 · Guest teaching 3/10 Revenue Scaling Milestones and Stretch Goal to One-Hundred Million Nathan cites granular data from Hercules Capital's public 10-Q filings, mentioning comparable portfolio loan rates, exit fee percentages for Sisense and Susie, and total B2B SaaS exposure. Jay confirms they achieved favorable terms on the lower end of Hercules' typical yield band.23:40–26:50 · Guest teaching 4/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Executive Insights During the rapid-fire questions, Nathan incorrectly guesses the author of Breathe as Brene Brown before correcting to James Nestor. Nathan also pushes on the realistic extent of AI deployment across the organization, which Jay estimates at 25-30%.0:38–3:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revolier Performance Overview and Debt Financing Summary Nathan introduces Revolier's financial profile from memory and filings, including revenue doubling, EBITDA margins, and ACV growth. Jay politely clarifies their timeline to achieving positive cash flow, which took until 2023 rather than 2019.3:17–7:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Core Product Mechanics and Chronic Healthcare Data Synthesis Nathan presents a hypothetical personal scenario about buying strep throat medication at CVS to understand the data sweep. Jay corrects the premise, explaining the platform focuses strictly on longitudinal chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease in Medicare/Medicaid patients.7:33–9:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Transition to Per-Member-Per-Month Pricing and ACV Growth Nathan tracks the company's metrics from their prior 2019 conversation, pointing out the customer expansion and tripled ACV. Jay explains why they transitioned away from cellular-style pre-purchased unit pricing to a standardized per-member-per-month model.9:52–14:26 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Strategic M&A Execution and Integration of Acquired Companies Nathan asks detailed questions about M&A post-merger integration risks, headcount, and revenue baselines. Jay clarifies the difference between the two acquired targets, noting Dynamic was an 8 million ARR cash generator while MD Portals was smaller.14:27–16:49 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Structuring Integration Playbooks with Advisory Support from Ankura Nathan probes into the external operational consulting utilized to standardize M&A playbooks. Jay walks through how Ankura helped structure sequential workstreams across back office, sales, and product.16:50–23:39 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Scaling Milestones and Stretch Goal to One-Hundred Million Nathan cites granular data from Hercules Capital's public 10-Q filings, mentioning comparable portfolio loan rates, exit fee percentages for Sisense and Susie, and total B2B SaaS exposure. Jay confirms they achieved favorable terms on the lower end of Hercules' typical yield band.23:40–26:50 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Executive Insights During the rapid-fire questions, Nathan incorrectly guesses the author of Breathe as Brene Brown before correcting to James Nestor. Nathan also pushes on the realistic extent of AI deployment across the organization, which Jay estimates at 25-30%.0:38–3:16 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Revolier Performance Overview and Debt Financing Summary Nathan introduces Revolier's financial profile from memory and filings, including revenue doubling, EBITDA margins, and ACV growth. Jay politely clarifies their timeline to achieving positive cash flow, which took until 2023 rather than 2019.3:17–7:33 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Core Product Mechanics and Chronic Healthcare Data Synthesis Nathan presents a hypothetical personal scenario about buying strep throat medication at CVS to understand the data sweep. Jay corrects the premise, explaining the platform focuses strictly on longitudinal chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease in Medicare/Medicaid patients.7:33–9:51 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Transition to Per-Member-Per-Month Pricing and ACV Growth Nathan tracks the company's metrics from their prior 2019 conversation, pointing out the customer expansion and tripled ACV. Jay explains why they transitioned away from cellular-style pre-purchased unit pricing to a standardized per-member-per-month model.9:52–14:26 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Strategic M&A Execution and Integration of Acquired Companies Nathan asks detailed questions about M&A post-merger integration risks, headcount, and revenue baselines. Jay clarifies the difference between the two acquired targets, noting Dynamic was an 8 million ARR cash generator while MD Portals was smaller.14:27–16:49 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Structuring Integration Playbooks with Advisory Support from Ankura Nathan probes into the external operational consulting utilized to standardize M&A playbooks. Jay walks through how Ankura helped structure sequential workstreams across back office, sales, and product.16:50–23:39 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Revenue Scaling Milestones and Stretch Goal to One-Hundred Million Nathan cites granular data from Hercules Capital's public 10-Q filings, mentioning comparable portfolio loan rates, exit fee percentages for Sisense and Susie, and total B2B SaaS exposure. Jay confirms they achieved favorable terms on the lower end of Hercules' typical yield band.23:40–26:50 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Executive Insights During the rapid-fire questions, Nathan incorrectly guesses the author of Breathe as Brene Brown before correcting to James Nestor. Nathan also pushes on the realistic extent of AI deployment across the organization, which Jay estimates at 25-30%.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 86.8% · guest 13.2%0:00 · Nathan 86.8% · guest 13.2%3:00 · Nathan 22.2% · guest 77.8%3:00 · Nathan 22.2% · guest 77.8%6:00 · Nathan 34.2% · guest 65.8%6:00 · Nathan 34.2% · guest 65.8%9:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%9:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%12:00 · Nathan 23.6% · guest 76.4%12:00 · Nathan 23.6% · guest 76.4%15:00 · Nathan 24% · guest 76%15:00 · Nathan 24% · guest 76%18:00 · Nathan 51.5% · guest 48.5%18:00 · Nathan 51.5% · guest 48.5%21:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%21:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%24:00 · Nathan 40.9% · guest 59.1%24:00 · Nathan 40.9% · guest 59.1%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:15 Rejecting acute care scenario premise

Jay directly rejects Nathan's hypothetical about tracking strep throat prescriptions, emphasizing that their core data synthesis exclusively addresses multi-year chronic medical conditions.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:00 Challenging debt structure on exit fees

Nathan presses Jay on Hercules' reputation for charging high backend exit fees, citing exact percentage comps from Sisense and Susie filings.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:15 Educating on chronic vs acute healthcare data

Jay educates Nathan on why scraping acute transactional pharmacy data is irrelevant to their enterprise payer customers compared to long-term risk-bearing disease registries.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 20:20 Reciting Hercules 10-Q portfolio metrics

Nathan demonstrates high financial expertise by quoting Hercules' exact quarterly 10-Q figures, including $3.3B AUM, 25.4% SaaS allocation, and 15.5% targeted weighted yields.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Revolier Performance Overview and Debt Financing Summary 7411 Nathan introduces Revolier's financial profile from memory and filings, including revenue doubling, EBITDA margins, and ACV growth. Jay politely clarifies their timeline to achieving positive cash flow, which took until 2023 rather than 2019.
Core Product Mechanics and Chronic Healthcare Data Synthesis 5624 Nathan presents a hypothetical personal scenario about buying strep throat medication at CVS to understand the data sweep. Jay corrects the premise, explaining the platform focuses strictly on longitudinal chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease in Medicare/Medicaid patients.
Transition to Per-Member-Per-Month Pricing and ACV Growth 6312 Nathan tracks the company's metrics from their prior 2019 conversation, pointing out the customer expansion and tripled ACV. Jay explains why they transitioned away from cellular-style pre-purchased unit pricing to a standardized per-member-per-month model.
Strategic M&A Execution and Integration of Acquired Companies 7423 Nathan asks detailed questions about M&A post-merger integration risks, headcount, and revenue baselines. Jay clarifies the difference between the two acquired targets, noting Dynamic was an 8 million ARR cash generator while MD Portals was smaller.
Structuring Integration Playbooks with Advisory Support from Ankura 6412 Nathan probes into the external operational consulting utilized to standardize M&A playbooks. Jay walks through how Ankura helped structure sequential workstreams across back office, sales, and product.
Revenue Scaling Milestones and Stretch Goal to One-Hundred Million 9324 Nathan cites granular data from Hercules Capital's public 10-Q filings, mentioning comparable portfolio loan rates, exit fee percentages for Sisense and Susie, and total B2B SaaS exposure. Jay confirms they achieved favorable terms on the lower end of Hercules' typical yield band.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Executive Insights 5423 During the rapid-fire questions, Nathan incorrectly guesses the author of Breathe as Brene Brown before correcting to James Nestor. Nathan also pushes on the realistic extent of AI deployment across the organization, which Jay estimates at 25-30%.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer Did Not Reach Cash Flow Positivity Until 2023
“I think the one, as I mentioned to you, the one we didn't get right is we thought we would end 2019 with a business that was generating positive cash. And we didn't hit that point until 20, 20, 20, 23, but we're there now and really excited about how the busin…”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 2:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer Has Grown to 88 Enterprise Healthcare Customers From 30
“So we're approximately 80 eight customers today. Yeah, from 30.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 9:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer's Average Contract Value Approaches $900,000 Per Customer
“And our average contract values continued to grow to where we're Approaching 900,000 annual contract value per customer.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 9:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer Outsold Dynamic Healthcare's Prior Five-Year Sales in 12 Months
“And we, in the first 12 months of owning them, we sold more new business than they had sold in the prior five years.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 12:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dynamic Healthcare Was Flat at $7M to $8M ARR When Acquired
“Acquisition one was a cash generating business of about seven, eight million of ARR. Like it was, it had been a flat business for a long time.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 13:36
Disclosure
Reveleer Had Existing Commercial Partnerships With Both Acquisition Targets
“And by the way, on the acquisition front, both of them were companies we had established partnerships with. So we understood one another. We knew how our products were going to work together.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 14:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer Doubled Revenue From $25M in 2022 to $51M in 2023
“In 20, 22, we were twenty five million of revenue. 20, 23, we were 51. Almost 52. So we doubled from 22 to 23.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 17:05
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Jay Ackerman Predicts Reveleer Will Double Revenue Again in 2024
“And if our team executes well, we'll deliver like numbers in 24.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 17:18
Disclosure
Reveleer Secured a $65M Pure Debt Facility to Fund M&A
“No, actually it was debt. We it was all debt. We now that our business is generating cash and we have really good understanding of the unit economics of our business we wanted to raise a debt facility to support M&A. And so Hercules is, we actually had a great…”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 17:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Reveleer Generated Just Under 10% EBITDA Margin on $51M Revenue
“We were just below 10.”
Jay Ackerman Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 21:49
Assertion Supported
Hercules Capital Targets 15.5% Weighted Yield and 11% Headline Rate
“Hercules public filings, they're usually targeting a 15.5% all in weighted yield and 11% headline rates.”
Nathan Latka Mar 19, 2024 ▶ 27:28
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