Mar 3, 2025 · 40m · the-pitch
#14 The Ghost of Startups Past: Tushy
Miki Agrawal · 13m spoken Josh Muccio · 7m spoken Jillian Manus · 4m spoken Daniel Gulati · 2m spoken Phil Nadel · 2m spoken James Altucher · 1m spoken Next Week's Pitcher · 11s spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Tushy founder Miki Agrawal enters the boardroom seeking $1 million for her modern bidet attachment, but faces strong investor pushback regarding market education costs and unresolved controversies surrounding her departure from THINX.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 26.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Josh as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 4.7 Josh pushing back 4.7
speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 29:50 Miki accuses the show of manufacturing drama
Miki dismisses the legitimacy of the investors' questions by asserting that the show intentionally provoked conflict for entertainment.
Hardest push from Josh ▶ 16:04 Phil asks Miki if she is difficult to work withPhil refuses to accept Miki's vague explanation for leaving THINX and directly asks if interpersonal difficulties were the real reason.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:43 Miki counters market demand doubts with health statisticsMiki reframes Phil's objection about lack of US demand by detailing specific ailments affecting over 30 million people that bidets solve.
Josh holds their own ▶ 20:20 Daniel breaks down the unit economics flawDaniel demonstrates venture expertise by walking through average order value, gross margins, and customer acquisition costs to show the business cannot achieve venture scale.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Josh as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Josh pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pitching Tushy and the Bidet Concept | 2 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Miki introduces Tushy with high energy, utilizing vivid analogies about toilet paper and wet wipes causing medical issues. The investors are entertained and ask basic exploratory questions, playfully declining a live water demo. | |
| Valuation, Financials, and Miki's Background with THINX | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | Investors inquire into revenue figures and Miki's previous company THINX. When asked why she stepped down as CEO and what equity she retains, Miki gives evasive answers, prompting brief probing from Phil and Jillian. | |
| Unit Economics, Defensibility, and Market Education | 6 | 5 | 7 | 7 | A vigorous debate unfolds over market education and defensibility. Phil and Jillian challenge whether American consumers perceive dirty toilet paper as a problem, but Miki adamantly rejects their skepticism by citing her successful track record with THINX. | |
| Inquiries into Departure from THINX and Growing Tension | 4 | 2 | 7 | 8 | Phil bluntly presses Miki on why she left a $50M business, asking directly if she is difficult to work with. Miki repeatedly stonewalls with 'I can't talk about it,' prompting Jillian to critique her lack of self-awareness and transparency. | |
| Investor Decisions and Final Passes | 7 | 2 | 6 | 6 | All four investors pass, with Daniel giving a concise breakdown of LTV and CAC economics. Miki dismisses their feedback with curt 'Great' replies and asserts that she looks forward to proving them wrong. | |
| Investor Debrief and the Backstory of THINX Scandal | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Monologue and debrief segment where the investors discuss Miki's combative reaction and Josh narrates the background of the THINX sexual harassment controversy. Interactive host scores are set to 0. | |
| Follow-up Interview with Miki Agrawal | 6 | 3 | 8 | 7 | In a post-pitch follow-up call, Miki accuses the show of manufacturing drama and claims the investors attacked her. Josh pushes back firmly, defending the relevance of investigating a founder's past track record and clarifying that the investors were unscripted. |
Statements from this episode (15)
Agrawal: Wet wipes strip natural oils and cause anal fissures
“Well, wet wipes are actually bad for you because they have, Chemicals and all these different things on it, which actually strips the natural oils from your behind, and so that doesn't work either. It causes anal fissures, anal itching.”
Agrawal: Tushy generated $1.5M in revenue prior to retail partnerships
“We've done about a million and a half in revenue to date but that's before our big partnerships like Home Shopping Network and, you know, we're talking to a bunch of different other retailers.”
Agrawal: Bidets lack US adoption due to pricing and millennial messaging
“They are, but they haven't become ubiquitous, mainly because of the price point and because of the cultural relevance. Like, they don't know how to talk to Especially the millennial consumer.”
Agrawal: THINX reached $50M in revenue under my leadership
“Yeah, we did fifty million under my leadership.”
Agrawal: Tushy Sells for $69 at an 80% Gross Margin
“We're selling it for 69 dollars, and we have an 80% gross margin.”
Agrawal: Over 30M Americans Suffer from Ailments Solvable by Bidets
“I think, I mean, again, if you just focus on the people who have ailments, like UTIs, hemorrhoids, yeast infections, anal fissures, anal itching, all of these, that's over thirty million people.”
Agrawal: People will not continue using toilet paper long-term
“There's no, absolute, no way in hell that People are going to continue to use toilet paper moving for the next X number of years. It's just not sustainable.”
Altucher: Agrawal probably won't remain CEO of Tushy past a certain scale
“And I think probably you wouldn't be CEO of this past a certain level, is my guess.”
Phil Nadel passes on Tushy over defensibility, market education, and founder history
“My concern is I don't see enough that's proprietary in, in the product functionality I'm concerned about going on this educational journey with you. You know, where it's, I see it as a journey, and I'm sure you do too, of educating a market that's not accustom…”
Daniel Gulati passes on Tushy citing unfavorable LTV to CAC math
“I just don't see enough of a gap between sort of lifetime contribution margin and paid customer acquisition costs for this to be A huge business, and so for that reason, I'm gonna pass too.”
Manus: Passed on Tushy because founder dismissed investor feedback
“And that's the reason I passed, because she kept saying, you're wrong. And after that, I thought, you know what, I know nothing. About this. So there is nothing I'm going to be able to add.”
Manus predicts Miki Agrawal will succeed with Tushy without pitch investors
“To tell you the truth, I think she's going to succeed. I really, really do. I know. Without us.”
Agrawal: Tushy raised $1M and is near profitability
“We raised the money, and we're pretty much profitable now, so it's actually epic. ... Nope, just raised the million.”
Agrawal: Tushy will fund growth via retained earnings without raising more capital
“This is the hope, was to get to profitability very quickly, and so we don't have to raise any more money. You know, it's been my goal all along. You know, just like my previous company, we just raised, you know, just what we needed, and then we hit profitabili…”
Agrawal: Boundary-pushing products require visionary investors
“If everybody believed in your product, then it would exist already. You know, it would already be in the world en masse, and the fact that it isn't means it requires a certain type of investors to see the future, to see where we're going”