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Mar 3, 2025 · 27m · the-pitch

#70 What Is Michael Phelps Jamming to Right Now?

Jason Fox · 9m spoken Josh Muccio · 5m spoken Charles Hudson · 2m spoken Michael Hyatt · 1m spoken Heather Rogers · 1m spoken Jillian Manus · 51s spoken Phil Nadel · 37s spoken
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Former NFL offensive lineman Jason Fox pitches Earbuds, a social audio platform allowing fans to listen synchronously alongside athletes and celebrities, securing a syndicated investment offer that encounters cap-table complications.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Josh holds 30% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Josh as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 2.2 Josh pushing back 4.5
05100:0010:0020:000:47–4:08 · Josh as informed peer 4/10 Introducing the Venture Capitalist Investor Panel The panel introduces themselves and is immediately starstruck by Jason Fox's NFL background. Fox smoothly introduces Earbuds and demonstrates live synchronized listening with minimal friction.4:10–6:27 · Josh as informed peer 5/10 Exploring Monetization Channels, Current Metrics, and Floundering Competitors Investors probe the revenue model, active user metrics, and past failed competitors like Vertigo and Eavesdrop. Fox explains the pitfalls of outsourcing tech and lack of talent acquisition.6:28–8:37 · Josh as informed peer 6/10 Platform Agnosticism and the Unbeatable Celebrity Moat Phil Nadel challenges why Spotify could not easily duplicate this in-house. Fox pushes back citing platform agnosticism and quotes former Shazam CEO Rich Riley on being the Switzerland of music.9:01–11:48 · Josh as informed peer 5/10 Celebrity Acquisition Strategy and Historical Financing Terms Michael Hyatt presses Fox on his star acquisition strategy outside of football, while Fox cites his direct personal network and recent celebrity investor additions before revealing his 14 million cap.11:50–15:33 · Josh as informed peer 6/10 Investors Propose a Collective Syndicate at an Eight-Million-Dollar Cap Charles Hudson refuses the 14 million cap and counter-proposes an 8 million valuation, prompting all four investors to syndicate an offer at the lower valuation. Fox negotiates prudently regarding existing investors.15:37–25:56 · Josh as informed peer 6/10 Post-Pitch Deliberations on Consumer Psychology and Music Startups Investors debrief on consumer psychology in music startups before producer Heather Rogers interviews Fox about the painful downstream dynamics of repricing earlier investors.0:47–4:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing the Venture Capitalist Investor Panel The panel introduces themselves and is immediately starstruck by Jason Fox's NFL background. Fox smoothly introduces Earbuds and demonstrates live synchronized listening with minimal friction.4:10–6:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Exploring Monetization Channels, Current Metrics, and Floundering Competitors Investors probe the revenue model, active user metrics, and past failed competitors like Vertigo and Eavesdrop. Fox explains the pitfalls of outsourcing tech and lack of talent acquisition.6:28–8:37 · Guest teaching 5/10 Platform Agnosticism and the Unbeatable Celebrity Moat Phil Nadel challenges why Spotify could not easily duplicate this in-house. Fox pushes back citing platform agnosticism and quotes former Shazam CEO Rich Riley on being the Switzerland of music.9:01–11:48 · Guest teaching 3/10 Celebrity Acquisition Strategy and Historical Financing Terms Michael Hyatt presses Fox on his star acquisition strategy outside of football, while Fox cites his direct personal network and recent celebrity investor additions before revealing his 14 million cap.11:50–15:33 · Guest teaching 4/10 Investors Propose a Collective Syndicate at an Eight-Million-Dollar Cap Charles Hudson refuses the 14 million cap and counter-proposes an 8 million valuation, prompting all four investors to syndicate an offer at the lower valuation. Fox negotiates prudently regarding existing investors.15:37–25:56 · Guest teaching 3/10 Post-Pitch Deliberations on Consumer Psychology and Music Startups Investors debrief on consumer psychology in music startups before producer Heather Rogers interviews Fox about the painful downstream dynamics of repricing earlier investors.0:47–4:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing the Venture Capitalist Investor Panel The panel introduces themselves and is immediately starstruck by Jason Fox's NFL background. Fox smoothly introduces Earbuds and demonstrates live synchronized listening with minimal friction.4:10–6:27 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Exploring Monetization Channels, Current Metrics, and Floundering Competitors Investors probe the revenue model, active user metrics, and past failed competitors like Vertigo and Eavesdrop. Fox explains the pitfalls of outsourcing tech and lack of talent acquisition.6:28–8:37 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Platform Agnosticism and the Unbeatable Celebrity Moat Phil Nadel challenges why Spotify could not easily duplicate this in-house. Fox pushes back citing platform agnosticism and quotes former Shazam CEO Rich Riley on being the Switzerland of music.9:01–11:48 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Celebrity Acquisition Strategy and Historical Financing Terms Michael Hyatt presses Fox on his star acquisition strategy outside of football, while Fox cites his direct personal network and recent celebrity investor additions before revealing his 14 million cap.11:50–15:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Investors Propose a Collective Syndicate at an Eight-Million-Dollar Cap Charles Hudson refuses the 14 million cap and counter-proposes an 8 million valuation, prompting all four investors to syndicate an offer at the lower valuation. Fox negotiates prudently regarding existing investors.15:37–25:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Post-Pitch Deliberations on Consumer Psychology and Music Startups Investors debrief on consumer psychology in music startups before producer Heather Rogers interviews Fox about the painful downstream dynamics of repricing earlier investors.0:47–4:08 · Josh pushing back 2/10 Introducing the Venture Capitalist Investor Panel The panel introduces themselves and is immediately starstruck by Jason Fox's NFL background. Fox smoothly introduces Earbuds and demonstrates live synchronized listening with minimal friction.4:10–6:27 · Josh pushing back 4/10 Exploring Monetization Channels, Current Metrics, and Floundering Competitors Investors probe the revenue model, active user metrics, and past failed competitors like Vertigo and Eavesdrop. Fox explains the pitfalls of outsourcing tech and lack of talent acquisition.6:28–8:37 · Josh pushing back 5/10 Platform Agnosticism and the Unbeatable Celebrity Moat Phil Nadel challenges why Spotify could not easily duplicate this in-house. Fox pushes back citing platform agnosticism and quotes former Shazam CEO Rich Riley on being the Switzerland of music.9:01–11:48 · Josh pushing back 5/10 Celebrity Acquisition Strategy and Historical Financing Terms Michael Hyatt presses Fox on his star acquisition strategy outside of football, while Fox cites his direct personal network and recent celebrity investor additions before revealing his 14 million cap.11:50–15:33 · Josh pushing back 7/10 Investors Propose a Collective Syndicate at an Eight-Million-Dollar Cap Charles Hudson refuses the 14 million cap and counter-proposes an 8 million valuation, prompting all four investors to syndicate an offer at the lower valuation. Fox negotiates prudently regarding existing investors.15:37–25:56 · Josh pushing back 4/10 Post-Pitch Deliberations on Consumer Psychology and Music Startups Investors debrief on consumer psychology in music startups before producer Heather Rogers interviews Fox about the painful downstream dynamics of repricing earlier investors.

speaking balance: gold is Josh, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Josh 56.7% · guest 43.3%0:00 · Josh 56.7% · guest 43.3%3:00 · Josh 5.9% · guest 94.1%3:00 · Josh 5.9% · guest 94.1%6:00 · Josh 37.6% · guest 62.4%6:00 · Josh 37.6% · guest 62.4%9:00 · Josh 17.1% · guest 82.9%9:00 · Josh 17.1% · guest 82.9%12:00 · Josh 18.8% · guest 81.2%12:00 · Josh 18.8% · guest 81.2%15:00 · Josh 37.1% · guest 62.9%15:00 · Josh 37.1% · guest 62.9%18:00 · Josh 16.5% · guest 83.5%18:00 · Josh 16.5% · guest 83.5%21:00 · Josh 11.8% · guest 88.2%21:00 · Josh 11.8% · guest 88.2%24:00 · Josh 71.7% · guest 28.3%24:00 · Josh 71.7% · guest 28.3%27:00 · Josh 0% · guest 0%27:00 · Josh 0% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:42 Fox rejects platform dominance in favor of agnosticism

Fox directly disagrees with Phil Nadel's assertion that Spotify is big enough on its own, countering with the strategic neutrality proven by Shazam.

 Hardest push from Josh ▶ 11:50 Charles Hudson balks at the 14 million cap

Hudson firmly declines the 14 million dollar valuation cap, stating he will only participate if the valuation drops to 8 million.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:48 Fox schools the panel on why major DSPs struggle with social

Fox breaks down the crowded UI clutter of Spotify and highlights why social music features fail when restricted to closed single-platform ecosystems.

 Josh holds their own ▶ 13:34 Charles Hudson breaks down music industry startup traps

Hudson draws upon his own investing losses in the music sector to explain why licensing and label morasses doom most consumer music startups.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicJosh as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementJosh pushing backWhy
Introducing the Venture Capitalist Investor Panel 4212 The panel introduces themselves and is immediately starstruck by Jason Fox's NFL background. Fox smoothly introduces Earbuds and demonstrates live synchronized listening with minimal friction.
Exploring Monetization Channels, Current Metrics, and Floundering Competitors 5324 Investors probe the revenue model, active user metrics, and past failed competitors like Vertigo and Eavesdrop. Fox explains the pitfalls of outsourcing tech and lack of talent acquisition.
Platform Agnosticism and the Unbeatable Celebrity Moat 6545 Phil Nadel challenges why Spotify could not easily duplicate this in-house. Fox pushes back citing platform agnosticism and quotes former Shazam CEO Rich Riley on being the Switzerland of music.
Celebrity Acquisition Strategy and Historical Financing Terms 5325 Michael Hyatt presses Fox on his star acquisition strategy outside of football, while Fox cites his direct personal network and recent celebrity investor additions before revealing his 14 million cap.
Investors Propose a Collective Syndicate at an Eight-Million-Dollar Cap 6427 Charles Hudson refuses the 14 million cap and counter-proposes an 8 million valuation, prompting all four investors to syndicate an offer at the lower valuation. Fox negotiates prudently regarding existing investors.
Post-Pitch Deliberations on Consumer Psychology and Music Startups 6324 Investors debrief on consumer psychology in music startups before producer Heather Rogers interviews Fox about the painful downstream dynamics of repricing earlier investors.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Supported
Fox: Earbuds has partnered with Spotify and Apple Music
“So we've partnered with Spotify and Apple Music, and so instead of just listening to music, we allow you to broadcast it, where other people can tune in live and listen along with you in complete, synchronized, real-time.”
Jason Fox Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 3:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Fox: Earbuds has roughly 5,000 MAUs during soft launch
“It varies, but plus or -5000.”
Jason Fox Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 5:49
Opinion
Fox: Competitors Vertigo and Eavesdrop have flopped and floundered
“You know, there's Vertigo tried to do it. It flopped out. It's had, it's exchanged founders several times. There's another one called Eavesdrop. Eavesdrop's kind of floundered.”
Jason Fox Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 5:54
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Fox: The winner in social music will be platform-agnostic
“The winner of the social space will be agnostic. Whether you get your music from your coworker, your girlfriend, Or even your favorite athlete or celebrity, they might not have the same music service as you. They might have Apple Music, you have Spotify, and s…”
Jason Fox Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 7:08
Insight
Hyatt: Winning social music platform's moat is celebrity star power
“The winner of the space will have a moat, and the moat is really simple. Who got the stars on and using it?”
Michael Hyatt Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 8:28
Disclosure
Fox: NFL Stars Baker Mayfield and Patrick Mahomes Are Earbuds Investors
“Baker Mayfield invested in our last round. Patrick Mahomes is coming in this round.”
Jason Fox Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 11:02
Disclosure
Fox: Earbuds Raised $630K Friends & Family and $1.5M in Previous Rounds
“I raised 630,000 from friends and family, and then last year we raised 1.5.”
Jason Fox Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 11:26
Disclosure
Phil Nadel offers $500k in Earbuds at an $8M valuation cap
“I'll do a half a million at eight.”
Phil Nadel Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 12:37
Insight
Hudson: Music startups are nearly impossible to fund due to licensing
“It's basically impossible, as you probably know, it's basically impossible to raise money For anything in music, because generally you get stuck in the morass of licensing and the labels”
Charles Hudson Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 14:00
Assertion Supported
Manus: LP True Capital represents around 400 top professional athletes
“One of our investors in our fund is called True Capital, and they represent something like 400 of the top professional athletes”
Jillian Manus Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 15:10
Insight
Hudson: All good consumer pitches come down to human psychology
“I think all good consumer pitches, for me, come down to an insight on human psychology.”
Charles Hudson Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 16:38
Insight
Fox: Founders should demand investor value-add tradeoffs when asked to lower valuation
“I don't want to negotiate against myself, so when they ask me to lower the valuation, I ask them, well, how else can you help? And I think there's a trade-off there.”
Jason Fox Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 23:18
Assertion Supported
Muccio: Investors stalled and Phil Nadel passed on Earbuds
“Charles, Michael, and Jillian, they still haven't actually given Jason any money. And Phil, well, he already told Jason he's out.”
Josh Muccio Mar 3, 2025 ▶ 23:29
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